HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Bartonella

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 5/11/2018 2:17 PM (GMT 0)
I'll restart mino and rifabutin. If i have lyme... it's not problem. Mino will work. But my major concern is if it's bart... Mimocycline was stopped 7 times, rifabutin 2 that mes.... i know rifampin can become resistant rapidly... i don't know if it happen with rifabutin...

What abx penetrate better csf?rifampin or rifabutin.
Posted 5/11/2018 3:32 PM (GMT 0)
Dr M says rifabutin is much stronger than rifampin. He seems to be the authority on bartonella so i take his word for it.

If you want to add something else to make sure bart isn't resistant, you could try houttinoya
Posted 5/11/2018 5:23 PM (GMT 0)

OriolCarol said...
I'll restart mino and rifabutin. If i have lyme... it's not problem. Mino will work. But my major concern is if it's bart... Mimocycline was stopped 7 times, rifabutin 2 that mes.... i know rifampin can become resistant rapidly... i don't know if it happen with rifabutin...

What abx penetrate better csf?rifampin or rifabutin.

Why do you think that Bart can become resistant rapidly to Rifampin?

Dr J - one of the most experienced llmd’s has patients pulse the Rifampin/Rifabutin

That’s why you take one or more abx with it.
Posted 5/11/2018 6:03 PM (GMT 0)
bart becomes resistant rapidly to rifampin if you are foolish enough to take rifampin alone for months. you take it with mino and mino does work on bartonella too, so this significantly lowers the chance bart will become resistant to rifampin.

the idea with resistance is that if bart is a single mutation away from becoming immune to rifampin, that may happen in several months. However to become resistant to both rifampin and mino, chances for that to happen in a group of cells is well .... VERY VERY LOW. so ... take both and be safe.


both rifampin and rifabutin penetrate well bbb. rifabutin has a much higher half-life than rifampin, meaning it stays longer in your blood stream and it can kill more bart.

both mino and rifampin/rifabutin are intracellular drugs. that is good because bart is an intracellular pathogen. it's not uncommon to add a third intracellular drug to these, like azithromycin. i took all 3 of them for 8+ months. im feeling fine now except for itchy eyes and foot pain, not sure if this can be fixed by anything ... i heard it could be related to MCAS.
Posted 5/11/2018 6:24 PM (GMT 0)
mpost - if bart becomes resistant to rifampin - does that mean it's resistant to Rifabutin, as well..since they are similar?
Posted 5/13/2018 12:19 AM (GMT 0)

OriolCarol said...
I've put the first dose of rifabutin smile herx in two hours?is it possible?


That's quick, but yes two hours is enough time to get into the blood stream, kill of the b*ggers and create toxins.



I can't remember if rifabutin is a cytochrome P450 drug...
Posted 5/13/2018 12:22 AM (GMT 0)
Looks like doxy is affected by Rifabutin as well.

I plugged both into the Drug Interaction checker I use:

Interactions between your drugs
Moderate
doxycycline rifabutin
Applies to: doxycycline, rifabutin
Using rifabutin together with doxycycline may decrease the effects of doxycycline.

BUT, FYI - LLMD MR has them listed as an option to treat bart in his Treatlyme online book.
Posted 5/13/2018 2:56 AM (GMT 0)

OriolCarol said...
Yes, i think it's weaker inducer than rifampim. In one study one medication was reduced 29% with rifabutin and 90% with rifampin.

Anyone i'm concerned about rifabutin and mino... i don't know because it's so complicated...

Mino is fine with Rifabutin - the levels of mino isn’t being affected by rifabutin.

I also put mino/Rif in drug interaction checker - none
Posted 5/13/2018 10:42 PM (GMT 0)

OriolCarol said...
Yes Girlie, but i don't know if there are studies with mino and rif like doxy/rif...

Mino and Rif is a combo that many llmd’s prescribe - That along with it showing no interactions on my drug interaction checker is enough for me
Posted 5/13/2018 10:44 PM (GMT 0)

OriolCarol said...
Girlie,when you were treating bart, when did you started to see improvement?

It was awhile - I think over 3 months before it worked for me.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply