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Question about Buhner relapse for Psilociraptor and any others

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Posted 7/20/2018 1:36 PM (GMT 0)
Psilociraptor - a couple of times recently you've mentioned that you've had excellent results with Buhner but that you relapse when you go off the protocol.

I'm wondering if you could describe in a bit more detail what that relapse looks like, how long it takes for you to relapse, and then recover. I am curious about how that 'weaning off' period might go in the future. I'm also wondering if you've tapered down to a minimal maintenance protocol or whether you find you still need to be taking everything.

Post Edited (sandyfeet) : 12/27/2021 9:48:59 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 7/20/2018 2:43 PM (GMT 0)
Sandyfeet,

I've had a similar experience. Back in April, I stopped all but knotweed for a few days and slowly added back some but not all of my protocol after a gut blowout. When I added stuff back, I was even more sensitive than before and had to reduce my normal doses plus drop to 2x day instead of 3.

I ended up staying with that until now. My joint stiffness got a little worse and muscle fatigue, loss of stamina. I went through a lot of stress in May and June with my dad being under hospice home care and then passing away 3 weeks later. Three weeks ago, I had an eyelid infection and was on Augmentin for a week. Finished that 11 days ago. Now I'm experiencing the worsening symptoms (joints, muscles, fatigue) that happens to me everytime I take an abx now. It lasted for 3-4 months the previous 2 times. Every time, I feel like I never recover to where I was before.

Anyway, three days ago, I decided I needed to experiment with my protocol and took 5 drops of houttuynia under the tongue in addition to the 4 drops of IHA formula I take in my protocol. I did this am and pm. Today is the third day of my experiment. So far, I have felt no herxing that I can tell and no real change at all. I was surprised by the complete lack of response.

I'm not sure where I'm going with my experiment, but it does appear that I am less sensitive to the herbs now than I was before I took that break and decreased my protocol in April. It could because the brief stint of Augmentin helped reduce the bug load. Hard to say.
Posted 7/20/2018 3:46 PM (GMT 0)
Have any of you experienced with antibiotics. It seems a lot of people experience this relapse with buhner. Are we sure it does any real killing to the microbes?
Posted 7/20/2018 3:48 PM (GMT 0)

LJohn23 said...
Have any of you experienced with antibiotics. It seems a lot of people experience this relapse with buhner. Are we sure it does any real killing to the microbes?


I’ve been on this forum since 2014 and believe me - the relapses happen with those on antibiotics too.
Posted 7/20/2018 4:10 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie- but I would imagine less often.
Posted 7/20/2018 4:32 PM (GMT 0)
Honestly I'm not on a full protocol. I do well with just antibacterials. Right now it's CSA but I'm looking for new options. For me the relapse starts within 24-48 hours of stopping every single time. Usually it starts with some sharp pains here and there in my nerves and muscles. Then excruciating pains in my bones and nerves. After about 4-5 days I usually have horrendous vasculitis. Feels like my blood has been lit on fire and any loss of circulation is excruciating. At this point I can barely sleep in bed because touching things while I sleep wakes me up in a jolt of pain. Then shortly after that I start getting new symptoms in new places and this sort of goes on for months and slowly tones down a bit.

So yeah... I don't go off my protocols anymore lol
Posted 7/20/2018 5:51 PM (GMT 0)
Sandyfeet- is that a biofilm buster your taking? Perhaps that could be the reason for declining when going off the protocol?
Posted 7/20/2018 6:51 PM (GMT 0)

LJohn23 said...
Girlie- but I would imagine less often.

No, I don't think so...
Posted 7/20/2018 7:17 PM (GMT 0)
I feel better when I take serrapeptase. When I get off it, I feel fine for a few days, and then I start feeling not as good, and sometimes I get chest pains.
Posted 7/21/2018 3:05 AM (GMT 0)
Sandyfeet I don't think it's bart. A lot of my symptoms seem like lyme but to be honest I don't know exactly what I'm dealing with. I've had a positive lyme ELISA standard. A few bands on igenex WB. igenex ehrlichia and babesia Duncan. But I have no symptoms of those so idk about the results. Maybe it's just a gut thing, or my bad tooth, or maybe it really is lyme. I just know antibacterials knock it back but don't know what it is or where it came from at this point. Thinking about trying one of these next gen sequencing tests soon to see if I can nail down the culprit

I just remembered I have serrapeptase. Need to try that. I'm playing around with some new things seeing if I can end this permanently. Tried anamu today. Seemed to have a reaction to it. Like a herx. But it was too early to tell. Might double the dose tomorrow. Then try serrapeptase after I give it some time. I'm sick of being on herbs but I can't really complain that they work darn well for me
Posted 7/21/2018 3:21 PM (GMT 0)

sandyfeet said...
Psilociraptor - yeah, it's always a bit of a mystery with symptoms and tests. I only know of lyme for sure and I'm guessing with my other symptoms, especially since I'm missing some classic symptoms on the others, but I guess that's the nice thing with herbs as you can experiment a bit more I think. The reason I asked about the bart is the bone pain and the very fast relapse. Thanks for the insights.

Notime4lyme - I think it was your earlier comments on serapeptase that got me looking into it - Thanks. It doesn't make me feel better unfortunately but I'm hoping it brings me one step closer to remission and if the hype is to be believed it would be great if it cleared up a bunch of internal scaring and adhesions I have too. I can always hope smile

Sandyfeet - you do know to take the serrapeptase on empty stomach ?
Posted 7/21/2018 5:06 PM (GMT 0)

sandyfeet said...
Yup. Thanks Girlie smile

It definitely stirs things up for me so I'm figure I'm doing it right. I was taking it morning and night but taking it at night was too much.


smile
Posted 7/22/2018 5:18 PM (GMT 0)
Bad tooth?
Posted 7/22/2018 6:26 PM (GMT 0)

delisa said...
Bad tooth?

I've had a painful tooth for years that no one can figure out. Since periodontal disease can be associated with systemic disease due to pathogens disseminating into circulation I sometimes wonder if that bad tooth is the source of my illness and not lyme
Posted 7/22/2018 6:37 PM (GMT 0)
I had periodontal disease starting in my late teens....bleeding. I was not doing good care at that time.

At 30 Years old, I changed clinics and the hygienist there said we needed to get a handle on it...and she froze my mouth, did the root planing....and then every 3-4 month cleanings after.

my hygiene at home was now good...and it perplexed her.

The pockets continued...and i ended up having the 'flap' surgery where they pull back the gums, do a good clean, and sew them back down.

My issues continued.

Then it just stopped - several years later. No more bleeding, pockets are all pretty good (3 and under for most teeth with a couple being 4 or 5)
They've been stable now for several years....no rhyme or reason.

my gums are a healthy color, no inflammation...all good now...

Very strange.
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