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Petechiae and Bartonella

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Posted 10/24/2018 8:01 PM (GMT 0)
Hey all. I’ve recently (past few weeks) developed red spots on my upper arms that strongly resemble Petechiae. I’m seeing a dermatologist Monday but I wanted to ask you all if you know what could be causing them. I’m finally on the full Buhner protocol for Lyme+Bart, could it be an allergic or adverse reaction to one of the herbs? Does anyone else have experience with this? I’d prefer to not stop everything for a few weeks to see if they go away on their own, but if they keep popping up I probably will have to. Any insight would be appreciated.
Posted 10/24/2018 8:18 PM (GMT 0)
That's def something I've spent some time trying to figure out. Of course there can be multiple causes for petechiae, but it seems like bartonella and babesia commonly cause them. When I treat those infections more aggressively (especially babesia) I get a lot more petechiae popping up leading me to believe the infections and petechiae are interlinked. I think it has to do with the infections' effects on the circulatory system and the fact they can cause damage to blood vessels. In my own case, whenever antimicrobial therapies cause more of them I suspect it is a sign that I'm effectively targeting the infections in the circulatory system and the ensuing die-off may be what is causing an amplification of the petechiae.

There have been a few threads in this forum on the subject, most of it involving best-guessing speculation (as I have done above!).

In case it can be of tangential interest, Dr Phillips and Dana shared a video last week on the potential skin manifestations of these infections: https://www.facebook.com/lymebook/videos/973421599526409/

Post Edited (sebreg) : 10/24/2018 2:21:33 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/24/2018 8:36 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, I’ve read those other threads too but nothing conclusive. I hope it’s a sign that the herbs are working but who can say for sure. It can’t be good to keep hemorrhaging internally though, I’m going to reduce my dose of everything for a week and see if it makes a difference. And of course see what the dermatologist has to say. I believe it’s connected to my treatment, but there’s always a chance it isn’t.

Do yours go away after a while?
Posted 10/24/2018 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
Do you get a lot? any chance you could share a picture? I tend to mostly get them on my arms but have noticed more lately with the heavy babesia treatment, they are interspersed throughout my body. They are really only noticeable to me so overall am not too concerned.

Mine aren't too crazy in terms of how many I get even with the treatments. And they do seem to go away after a while. The way I would contextualize it is if you are managing treatment ok (ie herx isn't too crazy) and you feel you are making progress, the petechiae shouldn't be too concerning so long as you feel they aren't getting out of hand. It seems they eventually repair, but it might take a bit longer as one is going through treatment and continually killing pathogens in the circulatory system (the inflammatory response and die-off may slow up the blood vessels' healing process? just a guess). Either way I don't think it's a bad thing to run it by a dermatologist just to be safe. I doubt they would find the potential link between tick borne infections and petechiae intriguing, but they will at least be able to help you rule out other potential causes. And that can be worth it just for peace of mind!!!

I have heard that supplements like EGCG and l-arginine can be helpful for the circulatory system and also helpful against the infections. Have you looked into those supplements? just don't take l-arginine if you have an active herpes infection.
Posted 10/24/2018 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
I’m on both of those supplements! Part of the Buhner protocol. I’m on a plane right now so I can’t take pictures, but I’ll try to remember for when I get home tonight. Im going to run it by a dermatologist because I know it can be caused by dangerously low platelet counts (even if that’s very unlikely to be the case I’d rather get it checked). Mine also seem to be clustered on my upper arms and nowhere else.

I’m more concerned that I’m having a reaction to one of the herbs. Though if it was an allergy surely there’d be other signs rather than spots on my arms... another thing to ask the dermatologist.
Posted 10/24/2018 8:56 PM (GMT 0)
Mine flare with bart treatment, small patches of them will migrate from my upper chest to my shoulders then disappear, they can also show up on my inner thighs. I have extremely heavy patches on my feet and shins that form solid areas that appear like birthmarks once faded.
Posted 10/24/2018 9:24 PM (GMT 0)

Noah2112 said...
Hey all. I’ve recently (past few weeks) developed red spots on my upper arms that strongly resemble Petechiae. I’m seeing a dermatologist Monday but I wanted to ask you all if you know what could be causing them. I’m finally on the full Buhner protocol for Lyme+Bart, could it be an allergic or adverse reaction to one of the herbs? Does anyone else have experience with this? I’d prefer to not stop everything for a few weeks to see if they go away on their own, but if they keep popping up I probably will have to. Any insight would be appreciated.

Petechiae is a known Babesia symptom.

It's possible that taking the lyme/bart protocol...has caused the babesia to come to the forefront?

I had some kind of skin thing after being on Bart for awhile - it was red dots...but it was under the skin..on one of my feet only....if that makes sense...not sure if it was petechiae....or not.

Now that I've treated lyme/bart and babs.....I'm not getting the frequent rashes (various ones) now.
prior to treating babesia...I had several different ones - on my torso - front and back...and now it's very rare for me to get a skin reaction.
Posted 10/24/2018 10:42 PM (GMT 0)
I’ve heard Babs and Bart, Girlie. My LLMD won’t treat me for babs since I haven’t had any of the hallmark symptoms of it: No air hunger, no night sweats (or sweats at all), or any of the other normal issues. Still, it’s something to keep in mind. I’m pretty sure this is bart related though, they started appearing as soon as I started on the bart herbs from Buhner. I’m not sure if it’s a reaction to a specific herb, a general consequence of treatment, or something entirely unrelated.

Maybe next time I go see my LLMD we can run another babesia test, but all of my problems have always been the classic bart symptoms so we’re focusing on that.
Posted 10/24/2018 10:50 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting experiences. I have them (red spots) but never noticed them increasing or decreasing in response to treatment.

When bart flares, the streaks on my abdomen get a deeper shade of red/purple and feel irritated. I also will get little bumps on my abdomen or lower back and skin will feel sensitive.
Posted 10/24/2018 10:50 PM (GMT 0)
It could be bart - but if you do have Babesia - it may need to be treated first.

That’s why dr J treats Babesia early on - every patient gets treated - no guessing game that way.

But - I do know people who did very little Babesia treatment and are in remission.
Posted 10/24/2018 11:27 PM (GMT 0)
This is all assuming that this is Petechiae in the first place for me too. I’m basing that because it looks similar to depictions I’ve found online and from what a nurse practitioner told me a month ago. Hopefully a trip to the dermatologist will at least verify that much, and that I’m not actually about to go into shock because I’m taking an herb that I’m allergic too!

I’ll post an update after I see him Monday. I wonder what he’ll have to say about my bartonella ‘stretch’ marks. He was a little interested in them last time.
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