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High TSH - Minocycline?

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Posted 11/18/2018 3:48 AM (GMT 0)
1.1 is low? Mine is less than 1 think the last one was .45
Posted 11/18/2018 5:08 AM (GMT 0)
yeah, it looks like "optimal range" varies against the lab range, but generally TSH is suppose to be 1 and 2.5 depending on the ranges.

i just dug through all my tests, it looks like last month i did have both antibodies(Anti-thyroglobulin and TPO). Ironically, those were in range in early october, so those were not impacted by minocycline or rifabutin for me. just TSH.

It looks like the only test i didn't have lately was RT3.
Posted 11/18/2018 5:55 AM (GMT 0)
.45 tsh is unusual with out thyroid med and is considered boarderline hyper. It is hyper per most docs opinions. BUT, again, thats why we look at the real "fuel" hormones in their free measurements of ft3 and ft4.

keep in mind the ranges were based on the general population tested, and of course we know all of them were not 100% thyroid healthy.
Posted 11/18/2018 6:02 AM (GMT 0)
The frees are always more important than tsh. tsh is just a signal with flaws. Its not fuel.
Posted 11/18/2018 6:47 AM (GMT 0)
My FT3 and FT4 have been tested a few times and they are in range.
Posted 11/18/2018 1:23 PM (GMT 0)
astroman, in your experience is it likely or typical to experience hypo type symptoms with one of hte values being out of "optimal range", but still within lab range. for example, my FT4 is .82 (Oct 26) and .92 (Aug 17), still waiting for my most recent FT4 to come back from yesterday, as it may normalize more since my TSH did. I wouldnt be suprised if this one came back more in the optimal range

the symptoms i am trying to pin to it, are sensitivity to cold, dry skin, and a some mild tongue cracking. these symptoms definitely were persistent over the period while using mino/rifabutin, the tongue cracking i think i never had before, i just noticed that one more recently since i have been dealing with candida.

i still have to request RT3.

Post Edited (sierraDon) : 11/18/2018 8:16:38 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/18/2018 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
Does anybody know the error in the labs measurements in general? Are they provided in your case (not in mine)! All type of determinations go with errors (systematic or not). Measurements (any type) are usually provided with error bars or standard deviation which gives you an idea of how reproducible the measure was.
Interestingly enough the labs don't make any reference to errors, so you don't know if between two measurements there is a difference or not. Without this we don't know if two different measures are truly different or not (even the numbers are).
And all our discussions may be only speculations. Too bad this info is not provided!
Posted 11/18/2018 4:24 PM (GMT 0)

Pillin said...
Does anybody know the error in the labs measurements in general? Are they provided in your case (not in mine)! All type of determinations go with errors (systematic or not). Measurements (any type) are usually provided with error bars or standard deviation which gives you an idea of how reproducible the measure was.
Interestingly enough the labs don't make any reference to errors, so you don't know if between two measurements there is a difference or not. Without this we don't know if two different measures are truly different or not (even the numbers are).
And all our discussions may be only speculations. Too bad this info is not provided!

Not in medical tests. Any errors were supposedly thought out in the decision for "normal" ranges. The TSH range in the thread is the updated one vs hypo tsh used to be 5+
Posted 11/18/2018 4:24 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah i was wondering this as well.

also, there are other things that can falsely influence thyroid blood tests, things like biotin that come in most B-complex supplements. i believe that one makes TSH lower than what it actually is.
Posted 11/18/2018 4:27 PM (GMT 0)
Not in medical tests. Any errors were supposedly thought out in the decision for "normal" ranges. The TSH range in the thread is the updated one vs hypo tsh used to be 5+

i just read this too, essentially any std dev or variance of error is baked into the "normal" reference range.
Posted 11/18/2018 4:30 PM (GMT 0)
I am not referring to the reference range, but the inability to know if two measurements (even within the range) are effectively different or not (if standard deviation is not provided). That is my point.
Posted 11/18/2018 4:33 PM (GMT 0)
Unlike TSH, The free ranges are different per the brand of machine used. I have seen these machines, they are amazing, and I almost did some R & D for one manufacture. So when posting , the range is needed.

The only way to feel normal with low side of t4 is to have high side of t3. This is exactly what natural pig thyroid hormone does (Armour and the like) , pigs have higher 3 to 4 ratio vs human, but we still can adapt to the pig ratio.
Posted 11/18/2018 11:05 PM (GMT 0)
Yes this is where i am at, lower end of T4, higher end of T3, all within range. tomorrow i should i get the latest T4 result back, to see if it is closer.

i can imagine its difficult to get someone to treat, when you are within range like this, but not optimal.
Posted 11/18/2018 11:08 PM (GMT 0)

Pillin said...
I am not referring to the reference range, but the inability to know if two measurements (even within the range) are effectively different or not (if standard deviation is not provided). That is my point.

i agree, the other thing i read is that reference ranges are determined largely by people who have illnesses or disorders, not by a spread of mixed population (healthy control and ill) in the sample set.

Even normal blood tests like CBC or CMP dont include margin for error.
Posted 11/19/2018 12:53 AM (GMT 0)
Low t4 with high t3 while not on thy med is ...odd.

Even if accuracy was 100%, what your body prefers makes a difference.

And the frees are so far the most accurate or repeatable as long as you test the same time of day. That said, this is just measures what hormone is free or available in your blood, not what cells are using.
Posted 11/19/2018 2:46 AM (GMT 0)
I think my thyroid labs are out of whack from the mino and rifabution, and starting to normalize.

Rifabutin has a half life of about 2 weeks, so it will be interesting to get this next FT4 result, which is at the 2 week mark.

Curious if RT3 will shed any light on this.
Posted 11/19/2018 3:04 AM (GMT 0)
If you do reverse T3 , the results are usually not fully calculated. To do that you go to stop the thyroid madness site, then look up the rt3 calculator. It needs free t3 value at the same draw to do this calculation. Some Drs (most) know nothing about this.

Many times people will have high rt3 when regular ft3 is also high, since your cells are not using it.

One time during very high adrenal stress , I had T3 pooling above the range. Rt3 was higher than normal too, but still not crazy high. Holy basil (adrenal calmer), made my ft3 pooling go down. I thought this was some wacko alternative medicine theory until it actually happened to me.
Posted 11/19/2018 3:08 AM (GMT 0)
I was told that the ref ranges were set by general population - many years ago - they tested them and plotted them all on a line and cut off the ones on either end - everything in between was in range.

I can’t remember who told me that - if it was my husbands endo or the one I saw when I was running to specialists to find out what the heck was wrong with me.
Or maybe it was something I read.
Posted 11/19/2018 3:11 AM (GMT 0)
There isn’t margin for errors on my labs - ie CBC, liver/kidney function...
Posted 11/19/2018 8:55 PM (GMT 0)
thanks, i will look to calculate it. I am getting RT3 tomorrow morning, along with B12, Folate, and Vitamin D. so will see where this goes. still waiting for my latest FT4.
Posted 11/20/2018 7:27 PM (GMT 0)

sierraDon said...
Thanks. I think my PCP will, if it is a clear cut case, and the levels are clearly out of range. but if it questionable, like subclinical hypo, or requires 2 meds, then probably wont, and have to go endo.

Pillin, how long you waiting until retesting? would be curious to hear how your test goes.

thanks

Hi sierraDon (and the rest),

actually I couldn't wait and I re-tested yesterday. I had stopped minocycline on Friday just in case it could be that.
I have to say that I did the labs with another laboratory, so the results might not be necessary comparable. The result was 6,5 (from 8,1 three days before). I also asked Free T4 and I am within the range but touching the lower limit. Conclusions? Well if the two laboratories are comparable (but I don't have proof of that) I have seen a clear improvement after stopping minocycline. But it may happen that I can not compare the two results. In any case, it does confirm that I have an issue with thyroids, but for the time being is not clinically relevant as FT4 is still ok.

In a couple of weeks I will repeat the analysis at the same laboratory and will tell you.

My gut feelings tell me that this is most probably due to minocycline. Will see...
Posted 11/20/2018 7:47 PM (GMT 0)
thanks, it seems like minocycline was the culprit. will be interesting to see what your results will be a few weeks.

i couldn't wait either. i did RT3, B12, Folate, Vitamin D. Still waiting on RT3, but B12 and Folate were good. Vitamin D was low at 22 (reference 30-100).

in my case, my feeling is that minocycle and rifabutin, caused a mild thyroid issue and vitamin deficiency. I will be repeating TSH/FT4 in two weeks as well.
Posted 11/20/2018 8:57 PM (GMT 0)
Aren’t you both testing FT3?
Posted 11/20/2018 9:41 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, i have tested all of them now.

I test TSH/FT4 every two weeks, then the other ones less frequent FT3 monthly, antibodies every two months. i never did the RT3 before, so just did that one. curious what that will be.

for me, the TSH and FT4 are the ones that seem to change, FT4 very subtly. TSH had the biggest changes, was increasing .20 or .25 every two weeks.

anyone doing mino, rifabutin or rifampin i would think should atleast do the full panel once, then monthly monitoring of TSH/FT4
Posted 11/20/2018 10:56 PM (GMT 0)

sierraDon said...


anyone doing mino, rifabutin or rifampin i would think should atleast do the full panel once, then monthly monitoring of TSH/FT4

You mean you if someone has an issue?
I’m on mino and Rifabutin - preciously Rifampin and I don’t get checked monthly.
I’ve never had a wonky test so I don’t think it’s warranted in my case.
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