Wondering if I Have Mold Issues

Really hard to know. From what I’ve read, lyme tends to be more relapse/remit with good & bad days while mold is constantly bad.

Neil Nathan’s new book, Toxic, may help you figure stuff out.

I have mixed tests too. Some point to lyme/bart and others mold. I am chemically sensitive now, which can be triggered by mold or lyme.

I tried abx and didn’t see much difference in neuro symptoms.

Lapis_29 said...
Here is the $5 mold test.

Go to store, buy pack of fresh blueberries. Smash them a bit and then Leave them out till they have visible mold. Sniff the mold. does that send you into a tizzy? do you immediately start hacking and coughing? Does just the presence of that mold make you feel ill and awful?

If you have visible mold in front of you and it doesn't really do anything to you and you don't really react to it, well then likely mold is not your major issue.

I don’t agree with this. There are many types of molds. Also, not everyone gets respiratory illness with mold.

And, if she’s already exposed to it in the house then mold on fruit won’t do much.

I think asking questions like - did your symptoms start after a move or having water damage are big clues. Also, feeling better in different environments.

saraeli,

A good place to start is looking at your ERMI test results again. Group I are the toxic molds found in water damaged buildings. Group II are other common molds. Group I could cause CIRS, while Group II could cause mold allergies or asthma. That’s my interpretation.

What is the HERTSMI-2 score calculated from the ERMI? Here’s a link showing how if you don’t know. https://www.mycometrics.com/hertsmi.html

I don’t agree with Shoemaker that a HERTSMI-2 less than 11 is safe for CIRS sufferers. My house was 10 and office was 8, and I am absolutely mold sick. I left both places 2.5 years ago and live in a place that was a 4 when I first tested it. I am STILL mold sick. I have hypersensitivity to mold everywhere, whereas I was not aware of being affected by mold prior to leaving my house and workplace. My chemical sensitivities have also continued to worsen. I’m sure it’s because I am still exposed to toxic mold, as there have been numerous water incidences in the house I am in.

If you are hypersensitive and have a multi susceptible gene, Shoemaker indicates the ERMI should be -2 (negative 2). Of course, you could have a score such as that even if you have lots of mold if Group II is higher than Group I. That’s why you need to really look at all the parts of the ERMI to really evaluate the safety and moldiness of the building.

sandyfeet said...
I’m happy to see you back WalkingByFaith! I hope you’re feeling well and rested.

Thank you, sandyfeet.

Thanks for this conversation, everyone!

WalkingbyFaith, it's clear that you have looked into this a lot, so please know that the following question is genuine curiosity and in no way meant to be a challenge. What makes you so certain that your CIRS is caused by mold? How can you tell that you are mold-sensitive, and not sensitive to something else? Did you experiment in some way, like a desert vacation or treating with cholestyromine or pectin? I'm wondering because the essence of my conundrum is exactly this: I know I have lots of mold exposure, I just want to know it's affecting me before I upheave my family's lives by moving to a different city (we cannot afford to live in the current city if we give up this house) and before I bankrupt us to get mold remediation done to a very large, very old house. I feel like I need some certainty, unrealistic though that desire seems to be.

Do you find that mold sickness feels different from Lyme sickness? From what I can tell, it's sort of impossible to know, but I thought I'd ask in case some people find their symptoms don't overlap.

My home's HERTSMI-2 score is 8 (so not dangerous, according to Mycometrics, at least) but my ERMI score is 8.5 - very high. This points to what I was saying about how I have lots of molds but not the kind that typically cause problems for humans. I do understand that I, specifically, could be having issues with a mold that others don't react to, of course. That seems like something my system would do....

I also wonder about the reliability of the Mycometrics collection process. I really filled that testing cloth until it was fully-coated with dust. It took me ten minutes of dusting the tops of door frames, the backs of drawers, the baseboards behind furniture, etc. I asked the people at the company if it was possible that my mold scores were high because I collected more dust than other people do, and the person on the phone said she'd never thought of that. (?!?!) The test reports numbers of spores found, not percentages, so it stands to reason that the more you dust with the cloth, the higher your scores will be. I'm not impressed with the scientific inaccuracy that introduces, since there's no standard of measurement in the instructions like, for example, dust approximately three square feet of surfaces that have not been disturbed for two weeks. I believe it's an accurate representation of which molds are detected, just not how moldy a place is relative to other places.

My C4a is off-the-charts high, measured both times by the Hebrew National lab. It was 11,000 (reference range 0-650) the first time it was tested (when I felt kinda bad) and then 6,000 a year later (same house, home more, more disabled). Confusing. I had been treating Lyme for a year and figured it was a sign of improvement that the score went down, even though my symptoms were worse.

The two species of mold that were high are both outdoor molds, stuff that grows on decaying plant matter (one from Mycometrics group 1 and the other from group 2). The basement of my house has a dirt floor, and relatively porous fieldstone foundation, so a major basement renovation likely would make a big difference. The other thing I'm sure contributes is house plants that live outside in the summer. On the one hand, the direct sunlight kills molds in the plants, but on the other hand, having them outside allows mold spores from outside into the pots. Being a gardener is a big part of my identity and life, but I have given away most of my house plants and sequestered the others on a floor of my house that I do not visit. All of that said, I have a house that's 150 years old. We don't know of any water damage, but who knows what might be under the floor boards.

Any ideas for finding a legitimate mold remediation company, and somehow not having it cost a fortune? I have been told that there are no industry standards, they can charge whatever they want, there's no guarantee that they know how to target the types of mold that are bothering someone, etc. So people just move. This seems ludicrous to me, since people rarely have much assurance that the place they move to will be better!

Another thing that makes me wonder about this is that I have no outdoor allergies and feel better outdoors, even in moldy seasons (and my house molds are "outdoor" molds). I have lived in water-damaged buildings before with no issues. I have been Lyme-sick before and have gotten better while living in places with visible mold growth. I know that's not exactly scientific, it just gives me enough doubt that I have trouble trusting this next suggestion - to address mold.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts. I know many of us have considered this issue, and I wish it were more straightforward!

I had a mold remediator inspect my home. They said it must be removed like asbestos to avoid contaminating other areas, the work is very costly. It's cheaper to move in some cases, and staying in a known cleaner environment is cheaper than testing a questionable one.

"I also wonder about the reliability of the Mycometrics collection process. I really filled that testing cloth until it was fully-coated with dust. It took me ten minutes of dusting the tops of door frames, the backs of drawers, the baseboards behind furniture, etc. I asked the people at the company if it was possible that my mold scores were high because I collected more dust than other people do, and the person on the phone said she'd never thought of that. (?!?!) The test reports numbers of spores found, not percentages, so it stands to reason that the more you dust with the cloth, the higher your scores will be. I'm not impressed with the scientific inaccuracy that introduces, since there's no standard of measurement in the instructions like, for example, dust approximately three square feet of surfaces that have not been disturbed for two weeks. I believe it's an accurate representation of which molds are detected, just not how moldy a place is relative to other places."


That would be my concern, too. What you wrote makes sense.