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Relatively cheap treatment options Bartonella?

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Posted 4/1/2019 7:53 PM (GMT 0)
Hello,

So I have Bartonella, and I've been looking into treatments and I'm not sure where to start. I'm not in a position financially to go on the Buhner protocol right now, I'm just wondering if there are any individual supplements that could atleast improve my energy levels with this infection.

I may be able to in the future but for now I'm looking to see if there are any affordable treatments. Even if I just improve then that is something.

Of course I know the best options is to see a specialist but I am genuinely not in a position to pay for that.

Thank you in advance
Posted 4/1/2019 8:24 PM (GMT 0)
I would pick one or two of the Buhner herbs for bartonella to start. Maybe sida acuta or Japanese knotweed. The cheapest binder is probably bentonite clay, plus turmeric for inflammation, and detoxifying Epsom salt baths. The cheapest 50-lb. bags of Epsom salt I have found on seasalt.com. Keep your diet as fresh and vegetable-heavy as possible. Your energy levels will improve when the infection and inflammation are better under control, and using stimulants to feel better in the meantime might create adrenal issues for you in the long run, so I'd recommend as much sleep and rest as possible. You can make some progress just using the things I mentioned, assuming that bartonella is actually the only thing you have.

A friend got a grant for the Cowden protocol from the Ticked Off Foundation. I don't know the details, but apparently that is a possibility.

Good luck!
Posted 4/1/2019 8:40 PM (GMT 0)
Japanese knotweed - if you can only pick one...as it's good for both Lyme and Bart.


Get the largest bottle...and you'll save money. I buy my buhner herbs through Woodland Essence. It's one of the sources Buhner recommends...

Edit to add: I checked my cupboard...thought I might have an extra JK bottle - that I could have sent to you to get you started...but I don't.
I won't be ordering for awhile, as I don't need anything yet.
Posted 4/1/2019 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
Buy it in powder form or they sell the solid pieces of root and you can grind them in a $20 Krups coffee grinder just break up big pieces by hand. Then just mix it with water and down the hatch. Just a suggestion.
Posted 4/1/2019 8:50 PM (GMT 0)
HH (houttuynia) in bulk bag- can make herxable tea with it. Many threads on this starting about three years ago.

Post Edited (astroman) : 4/3/2019 10:17:23 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/2/2019 12:31 PM (GMT 0)
Bartonella is often resistant to antibiotics, but I found it to be susceptible to minocycline and metronidazole. Both of these are fairly cheap and can be purchased from AllDayChemist or InhousePharmacy.

Taking minocycline for several months got rid of most of my symptoms (shortness of breath, dark urine, rashes) but didn't completely get rid of all the bacteria, and I had some relapse when I took a break from the minocycline. Metronidazole also worked, but I had a hard time tolerating the side effects (headaches).

Bartonella has a particularly awful smell when the bacteria die, and that was my main gauge of whether the abx were working.
Posted 4/2/2019 12:40 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Quin what does the Bart smell like when it’s dying off? How long did you treat with the antibiotics? I’m on month six and trying to decide if I should switch to herbals or stuck with antibiotics. These are all good suggestions to the poster. I’d recommend getting some books on Lyme even if you just rent them at the library, they helped me learn a lot.
Posted 4/2/2019 1:12 PM (GMT 0)
I think it smells like compost or sewage, or maybe a bit like broccoli. Others have described it as like asparagus or wet hay.

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4103513

Three months of minocycline didn't completely get rid of the bartonella. I tried Flagyl (metronidazole) but pretty quickly realized I couldn't tolerate that. Back on minocycline for now, will probably try something else soon.
Posted 4/2/2019 1:19 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you. Could you add in some supplements with the mino to help you? Maybe LDN or Transfer Factor Multi Immune. The original poster might be interested in LDN as well, it’s pretty cheap and can help your body fight the infection.
Posted 4/2/2019 1:35 PM (GMT 0)
LDN is cheap if you cut the pills

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4115210

It might help with some of the symptoms, but naltrexone is not bactericidal.
Posted 4/2/2019 1:40 PM (GMT 0)
Quin I heard that LDN can help boost your immune system which can help fight the infection, is that correct? It did help my pain and twitching a lot.
Posted 4/2/2019 4:32 PM (GMT 0)
Most llmd’s will not prescribe just minocycline to treat Bartonella.

It is not considered a good protocol for bart.
Maybe if you combine another abx with it.
But not on its own.

In most cases Rifabutin or Rifampin paired with another abx is needed.

There’s also the flouroquinolones - supposedly the best abx for bart BUT they come with serious risks of side efffects that can be permanent.

The dieoff doesn’t smell with me..
Posted 4/2/2019 4:38 PM (GMT 0)

HeartsinPain said...
Quin I heard that LDN can help boost your immune system which can help fight the infection, is that correct? It did help my pain and twitching a lot.

You can get a prescription from your dr and have a compounding pharmacy make it.
You will want to get a low dose like 1 mg so you can start low and increase to a dose that works. It varies from person to person. Generally between 3 to 4.5 is a common effective dose.
Posted 4/2/2019 9:01 PM (GMT 0)
I think LDN can also help your sleep, which of course your immune system is related to
Posted 4/2/2019 9:58 PM (GMT 0)
Clove is one of the A-Bart ingredients, you can purchase a bottle of essential oil that will last a few months. Apply it to the soles, the thicker skin there is less sensitive. Dilute it in a carrier oil like coconut, then increase the concentration until undiluted if you aren't having a reaction.
Posted 4/2/2019 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
For some reason the LDN affected me adversely - when I took it I started to have pain during the night - waking me up (prior to that I could sleep well without the pain )

I stopped taking it
Posted 4/3/2019 1:32 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Most llmd’s will not prescribe just minocycline to treat Bartonella.

It is not considered a good protocol for bart.
Maybe if you combine another abx with it.
But not on its own.

In most cases Rifabutin or Rifampin paired with another abx is needed.

There’s also the flouroquinolones - supposedly the best abx for bart BUT they come with serious risks of side efffects that can be permanent.

The dieoff doesn’t smell with me..


Bartonella is just really difficult, because it is so frequently resistant to many different antibiotics. I suppose it depends on what kind of bart you got. There are different strains of bartonella. I got the really stinky stuff.

I found the bartonella to be resistant to amoxicillin, clarithromycin, valproate, and rifampin. Some have reported success treating bart with rifampin. However, rifampin does tend to be a bit more expensive than flagyl or minocin, which was a concern for OP.

I'd love to find a better option for treating bartonella. Minocin (minocycline) seems to be insufficient to completely kill it off, and I'm having trouble tolerating flagyl (metronidazole). Fluoroquinolones are risky, as you know. Tinidazole might be an option, but it's chemically similar to metronidazole.
Posted 4/3/2019 1:44 AM (GMT 0)

HeartsinPain said...
Quin I heard that LDN can help boost your immune system which can help fight the infection, is that correct? It did help my pain and twitching a lot.


I didn't really notice that it did much to my immune system. It had the usual effect of increasing REM sleep. It seemed to help a bit with the muscle twitching.

I actually found that I needed to take quite a lot, around 10mg a day, to notice an effect. I eventually quit taking it.
Posted 4/3/2019 1:58 AM (GMT 0)
I have to ask on this- how do you notice a smell? Like in your pee? I’m curious....
Posted 4/3/2019 2:12 AM (GMT 0)

Christinety said...
I have to ask on this- how do you notice a smell? Like in your pee? I’m curious....

Urine, sweat, and especially feces. Also the toxins from the dead bartonella tend to give me a stomach ache until I poop it out.
Posted 4/3/2019 2:26 AM (GMT 0)
“I'd love to find a better option for treating bartonella. Minocin (minocycline) seems to be insufficient to completely kill it off, and I'm having trouble tolerating flagyl (metronidazole). Fluoroquinolones are risky, as you know. Tinidazole might be an option, but it's chemically similar to metronidazole.”

Yes minocycline alone is NOT sufficient to treat bart.
Try Rifabutin since the fluoroquinolones aren’t something you want to try because of their black box warnings.

Rifabutin is much stronger than Rifampin.
Posted 4/3/2019 4:09 PM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone, thank you for your replies smile

I will definitely look into your suggestions. I don't have any co infections it is just Bartonella with me. I've tried Knotweed and my god my Bart symptoms went crazy (the nerve pain) so I had to quit. I'll try the other suggestions though. Is there anywhere in the UK that A Bart can be purchased?

My mains symptoms are low energy, nerve irritation, headaches, congested lymphatic system.

Again thank you

Post Edited (SamanthaE) : 4/3/2019 10:12:48 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/3/2019 4:16 PM (GMT 0)

acarined said...
Clove is one of the A-Bart ingredients, you can purchase a bottle of essential oil that will last a few months. Apply it to the soles, the thicker skin there is less sensitive. Dilute it in a carrier oil like coconut, then increase the concentration until undiluted if you aren't having a reaction.

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This is very interesting. Foot pain is one of my main symptoms. Can you apply A-Bart to your feet as well?

Girlie I know that some people say taking LDN backfires if they take it for Lyme that is untreated. Did you take it early in your treatment?
Posted 4/3/2019 5:05 PM (GMT 0)

SamanthaE said...
Hi everyone, thank you for your replies smile

I will definitely look into your suggestions. I don't have any co infections it is just Bartonella with me. I've tried Knotweed and my god my Bart symptoms went crazy (the nerve pain) so I had to quit. I'll try the other suggestions though. Is there anywhere in the UK that A Bart can be purchased?

My mains symptoms are low energy, nerve irritation, headaches, congested lymphatic system.

Again thank you

What makes you think you don’t have coinfections?
Posted 4/4/2019 3:05 AM (GMT 0)
Quin,
Bactrim with mino in is wow I have to keep stopping it herxes are crazy but I am making progress
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