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Abx combination question

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Posted 5/16/2019 7:29 PM (GMT 0)
Hi all,

Would like to ask, is there any benefit in taking cefixime and amoxicilin combination?

Thanks
Posted 5/17/2019 3:54 PM (GMT 0)
Hi! I think those are too similar, but hopefully someone else will chime in.
Posted 5/17/2019 5:28 PM (GMT 0)
I don't know why you'd combine two beta-lactams. It's just more of the same thing.
Posted 5/17/2019 6:40 PM (GMT 0)
What about spectrum of action?
Posted 5/18/2019 1:33 AM (GMT 0)
Cefixime and amoxicilin both inhibit cell wall formation. So I don't think combining these would do much more than either alone.

You've mentioned that you're taking depakote. This study suggests that cell wall damaging drugs enhance susceptibility to valproic acid. https://www.genetics.org/content/175/4/1695

I found that amoxicillin (in combination with depakote) caused some herx, but that cefdinir caused a much more noticeable Herxheimer reaction. I never tried cefixime, but it's chemically similar to cefdinir (cephalosporin), so that might be preferable to amoxicillin.

I don't know what co-infections you have, but neither of these drugs are particularly good for treating bartonella.
Posted 5/18/2019 1:31 PM (GMT 0)
weak positive Bart and babs. Youre right, guess i have to take zithromax again low dose.
Posted 5/18/2019 4:43 PM (GMT 0)
Amoxicillin or cephalosporins are unlikely to affect babesia.
Posted 5/18/2019 4:44 PM (GMT 0)
Zithromax does babesia and bart, at least thats what i found
Posted 5/18/2019 4:50 PM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Zithromax does babesia and bart, at least thats what i found

Maybe.

I got macrolide-resistant bartonella, which was resistant to clarithromycin. Azithromycin resistance has also been reported in vitro. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5035977/

So zithromax might work, or it might not.
Posted 5/18/2019 7:16 PM (GMT 0)
Why did you got resistance? Did you found out? Also did cefdinir plus depakote worked for you with bartonella?

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 5/18/2019 2:36:20 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/18/2019 7:33 PM (GMT 0)
At the time, I was taking amoxicillin, clarithromycin, and valproate. This worked pretty well against borrelia, but the bartonella infection just got worse and worse.

Eventually I switched the clarithromycin for minocycline, and then I started getting a bartonella herx. Flu-like symptoms, and it smelled awful. Maybe not quite as bad as the smell of C.Diff, but bad.

Why did I get resistance? Probably because I got the bartonella from a cat. People give their cats antibiotics, and this breeds antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

And bart is hard to get rid of. After 4 months of minocycline, I did a PCR test, and it was positive for bartonella henselae. So I'm still on antibiotics.
Posted 5/18/2019 9:58 PM (GMT 0)
Maybe you minocycline resistance also?
Strange i did serology bartonella and nothing. I have Arminlabs weak positive but not sure if reliable. Should i do PCR even if serology are negative?

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 5/18/2019 4:16:41 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/18/2019 10:24 PM (GMT 0)
Did you get the PCR done on a blood sample or a different bodily fluid? We all know that Bartonella likes to infect the salivary glands of its host so I assume that a PCR test on a saliva sample would also work? And what about a urine sample? I always hear of people finding spirochaetes in their urine sample. And Bart likes the kidneys and the bladder right?

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 5/18/2019 4:28:08 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/18/2019 10:31 PM (GMT 0)
Blood only, not sure if doc buys other fluids. But i might ask the lab
Posted 5/18/2019 11:25 PM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Maybe you minocycline resistance also?
Strange i did serology bartonella and nothing. I have Arminlabs weak positive but not sure if reliable. Should i do PCR even if serology are negative?

Weak POSITIVE... IS a positive result - don’t spend any more money on testing - save it for treatment.
Posted 5/18/2019 11:34 PM (GMT 0)
I see Girlie, but the last test i made with Arminlabs i made new trick to see how it went: i choosed borrelia miyamotoi to test and i was weak positive also!!. So its hard to see reliability. I was positive for borrelia Burgdorferi and weak positive for miyamotoi!? What do you think? Two borrelias? I suspect you get weak positive for everything even if you choose to test and unknown pathogen with them?!

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 5/18/2019 5:38:11 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/18/2019 11:40 PM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
I was positive for borrelia Burgdorferi and weak positive for miyamotoi!? What do you think? Two borrelias?

Why not?

Are you seeing a LLMD?
Many of us test for lyme and not the coinfections - the tests are even less reliable for them.
A LLMD should be treating you based on your symptoms, progress or lack of progress, herxing on certain meds...etc.

OR - as DrJ does - treats for all three B’s.
Posted 5/18/2019 11:43 PM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
I suspect you get weak positive for everything even if you choose to test and unknown pathogen with them?!

Nope - lots of negatives for bart and Babs - my LLND didn’t even want me to test for them - and now at the J clinic - they also don’t push you to test for bart and Babs.
Posted 5/19/2019 12:08 AM (GMT 0)
This is what my doc is doing, treating based on symptoms
Posted 5/19/2019 12:34 AM (GMT 0)
I also heard a lot of falar positives!?
Posted 5/19/2019 12:38 AM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
I also heard a lot of falar positives!?

Nope

PCR test identifies the DNA of the bacteria in your blood.

WB - your body’s immune system mounts a response to the bacteria - but once you’re healed you may still show antibodies for borrelia.
So positive WB means you have/had the bacteria - but it doesn’t necessarily show active infection - that’s when the symptoms come into play.
Posted 5/19/2019 12:56 AM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Also did cefdinir plus depakote worked for you with bartonella?

Depakote never seemed to do much to bartonella, other than release it from the biofilms and cysts created by borrelia. Every time I would take depakote, I would herx from the dead borrelia and I would get bart. I'd kill the bart with minocycline, then take more depakote, herx from that, and I'd get more bart.
Posted 5/19/2019 1:12 AM (GMT 0)
Quin seems like a loop for me, herx would kill Bart instead of getting more Bart? How can you herx and get more Bart from that?

Girlie: i am talking about Elispot not PCR.
Posted 5/19/2019 1:13 AM (GMT 0)

insomniaaa said...
Did you get the PCR done on a blood sample or a different bodily fluid? We all know that Bartonella likes to infect the salivary glands of its host so I assume that a PCR test on a saliva sample would also work? And what about a urine sample? I always hear of people finding spirochaetes in their urine sample. And Bart likes the kidneys and the bladder right?

I had the urine test done at dnaconnexions. They recommend that you do exercise to dislodge the bacteria so that it will show up in your urine. I was feeling sick and really didn't want to do a lot of exercise, so I took antibiotics and waited until I was herxing, then peed in the cup and sent it in. They found the bartonella DNA, and also borrelia burgdorferi.

And what is with bartonella getting into the salivary glands? I had all this white crud in my mouth. It looked like I had rabies.
Posted 5/19/2019 1:26 AM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Quin seems like a loop for me, herx would kill Bart instead of getting more Bart? How can you herx and get more Bart from that?

When I would successfully treat borrelia, it would lead to bartonella relapses.

What I figure is, borrelia would form a cyst, and bart would hide in there. So when I would kill the borrelia and bust the cyst, then the bart would come out.
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