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Treating intestinal parasites vs. babesia

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Posted 7/12/2019 9:30 AM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone, first post for me. This is embarrassing but here goes. Last year I was on various IV abx and my Borrelia is showing in remission (per Igenex). However my Babesia duncani which used to be either equivocal or negative is now a strong positive, LLMD said this is not uncommon once Lyme is out of the picture for the cos to flare. LLMD prescribed both Mepron and Malarone at the same time, avoiding abx for now since my system got destroyed by all the IV.

The thing is, I've been fighting a bad case of intestinal parasites for a couple of months now. I had them early last year and cleared out with 5 months of pulsed Ivermectin/mebendazole with doxy to kill the Wolbachia (sharkman protocol); I thought I was in the clear until a couple of months ago I decided to add liposomal Biocidin to my maintenance regimen, and ewww they started reappearing in the stool again (thank you Biocidin). LLMD prescribed Biltricide, Ivermectin, albendazole and pyrantel pamoate to do a Klinghardt-type cleanse but I prefer to pulse with the moon cycles over a longer period of time a la Sharkman (or per the debugyourhealth website). The Pyrantel and ivermectin were especially productive. At the moment I'm still passing about 1/4 to 1/3 parasites in my stool. Would it be better to get my intestinal parasitic load down further before starting to treat the babs? I had stopped the anti-parasitic meds and was ramping up the Malarone, but I started having second thoughts on hammering the intestinal parasites even harder before starting the babs meds to give my body a chance. Has anyone been in a similar situation? I think Dr. K instructs to get rid of intestinal parasites before addressing the rest.

My main symptoms are extreme fatigue, constant overall joint and muscle pain (I'm currently in pain management) digestive issues, liver pain, bad allergies/histamine reactions, emotional lability.

thanks!
Posted 7/12/2019 12:41 PM (GMT 0)
I would stick with treating intestinal parasites for the time being. They are likely the cause of your symptoms.

Sorry! I didn’t welcome you first. Welcome to the forum. I’m glad you found us. Feel free to post as many questions as you like. Also, check out the info on the New to Lyme tab at the top if you haven’t already.

I will add (as I know magoo2 will) that parasite issues and dental and heavy metal issues are often related. Since you already know you have intestinal parasites, have you been to a biological dentist? In a nutshell:
- have any amalgams safely removed by a biological dentist
- root canals seem to be sources of chronic infection
- cavitations (infections) can occur in sites where teeth have been pulled
- a Cavitat or cone beam scan can find these infections and jawbone necrosis that don’t show up on xrays

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 7/12/2019 6:50:08 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/12/2019 2:32 PM (GMT 0)

Netterz said...
Hi everyone, first post for me. This is embarrassing but here goes. Last year I was on various IV abx and my Borrelia is showing in remission (per Igenex). However my Babesia duncani which used to be either equivocal or negative is now a strong positive, LLMD said this is not uncommon once Lyme is out of the picture for the cos to flare. LLMD prescribed both Mepron and Malarone at the same time, avoiding abx for now since my system got destroyed by all the IV. !

I would treat the intestinal parasites first.

Question - what Igenex test showed your lyme was in remission?
Was it the IGX Spot?


I’ve not heard of malarone and Mepron being used together. Is this something your LLMD has prescribed before?

Please keep us posted on your progress.
Posted 7/12/2019 2:43 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks so much for your reply and the warm welcome, WalkingbyFaith. My intuition is definitely telling me to keep focusing on decreasing the parasite load first, I really think my LLMD is underestimating the impact of that. Unfortunately I hadn't taken any pics of the bugs to show them at my appointment sad I dewormed my husband a couple of weeks ago to check and see if he was also infected, and nothing came out like what's going on for me. It's so gross and the opiates from pain management are making the whole situation worse with the constipation.

I had my remaining amalgams removed in 2017 by my regular dentist, which caused my second relapse (my opinion only, I have no proof other than timing) never had root canals or cavitations, just regular fillings. Perhaps a biological dentist could find something on a scan that the regular dentist hasn't already? I do have an integrative physician that's willing to start testing me for heavy metals and any chelation needed, but I'm not too sure about the timing of that in relation to the rest (parasites/babs). My overall health isn't that great at the moment and I'm still working full time, but it's so hard sad I'm worried that if I do it all at once I'll explode lol.
Posted 7/12/2019 3:04 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

I would treat the intestinal parasites first.
Question - what Igenex test showed your lyme was in remission?
Was it the IGX Spot?
I’ve not heard of malarone and Mepron being used together. Is this something your LLMD has prescribed before?
Please keep us posted on your progress.

Hi Girlie, thank you. The test results are for 'Borreliosis Western Blot, IgM and IgG'. I was previously CDC positive on both, now negative (both IGX and CDC standards) for IgM as only band 41 is showing one + , IgG is positive by IGX standards only. For Babesia Duncani it was a IFA - IgM, positive is >=40 and mine came back at 80. IFA- IgG was negative.

LLMD said that the proguanil in Malarone has an antibiotic effect comparable to Mepron + Azith, without having the intestinal microbiome-destroying side effects. Malarone in itself doesn't have enough atovaquone to treat an active infection, so they pair it with Mepron. My initial dosing instructions are Malarone 1 pill BID and Mepron 1 tsp BID, and I have a lab order to check my blood levels 2 weeks after starting treatment. Health insurance covered the whole treatment so they must have some studies that back it up (?) haven't searched for studies myself, yet. I will keep you posted!
Posted 7/12/2019 3:10 PM (GMT 0)
"Hi Girlie, thank you. The test results are for 'Borreliosis Western Blot, IgM and IgG'. I was previously CDC positive on both, now negative (both IGX and CDC standards) for IgM as only band 41 is showing one + , IgG is positive by IGX standards only. For Babesia Duncani it was a IFA - IgM, positive is >=40 and mine came back at 80. IFA- IgG was negative.

LLMD said that the proguanil in Malarone has an antibiotic effect comparable to Mepron + Azith, without having the intestinal microbiome-destroying side effects. Malarone in itself doesn't have enough atovaquone to treat an active infection, so they pair it with Mepron. My initial dosing instructions are Malarone 1 pill BID and Mepron 1 tsp BID, and I have a lab order to check my blood levels 2 weeks after starting treatment. Health insurance covered the whole treatment so they must have some studies that back it up (?) haven't searched for studies myself, yet. I will keep you posted!"

Is your llmd an experienced one?

I ask because Western blots can't be used to determine when you're in remission.
It's based on your immune system mounting a response - and often with lyme our immune system isn't strong enough...resulting in false negatives.

Plus - you had an Igenex WB IgG positive test!!!
Posted 7/12/2019 9:40 PM (GMT 0)
check out the microbe formulas parasite facebook page or the microbe formulas website- I ust started on the mimsao pudica today- I think herbal treatments are best for parasites and there is a welath of info on these sites as well as protocols to follow and people to ask questions to!
Posted 7/12/2019 11:22 PM (GMT 0)

flowergarden said...
check out the microbe formulas parasite facebook page or the microbe formulas website- I ust started on the mimsao pudica today- I think herbal treatments are best for parasites and there is a welath of info on these sites as well as protocols to follow and people to ask questions to!

I’m using Mimosa pudica and Biotox. Did Mimosa a while back at 2 capsules 2x day for about 5 weeks and stopped. I expelled a lot of ropeworm early on and possibly some other things, but I couldn’t identify what they were, but I had no improvement.

I just started feeling more die off symptoms - morning depression and mild nausea, emotional issues, head pressure, headaches, etc. I stopped thinking I would just take a break a few days, but I couldn’t handle it anymore. I ended up taking half capsules of Intestinal Mover every other day for a little while.

Eventually, I was able to restart Mimosa and have been taking 2-3 capsules morning only for a few weeks. I have been okay with that so far and am expelling ropeworm again. No real improvement in symptoms or bowel function, though.
Posted 7/13/2019 8:29 AM (GMT 0)
Yes my LLMD recommended taking Mimosa Pudica seed for 10 days at each full moon. I take it more than that though, I do find it very productive at helping to expel parasites. The one I take is Mimosa Pudica + by CodeAge. Actually parasites is one thing that you need prescriptions to eradicate completely, you can do it with just herbals unfortunately. A really good website with a lot of info on parasites that helped me is www.debugyourhealth.com. I haven’t tried muscle testing yet though, still skeptical 🤨
Posted 7/13/2019 8:31 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
"Hi Girlie, thank you. The test results are for 'Borreliosis Western Blot, IgM and IgG'. I was previously CDC positive on both, now negative (both IGX and CDC standards) for IgM as only band 41 is showing one + , IgG is positive by IGX standards only. For Babesia Duncani it was a IFA - IgM, positive is >=40 and mine came back at 80. IFA- IgG was negative.

LLMD said that the proguanil in Malarone has an antibiotic effect comparable to Mepron + Azith, without having the intestinal microbiome-destroying side effects. Malarone in itself doesn't have enough atovaquone to treat an active infection, so they pair it with Mepron. My initial dosing instructions are Malarone 1 pill BID and Mepron 1 tsp BID, and I have a lab order to check my blood levels 2 weeks after starting treatment. Health insurance covered the whole treatment so they must have some studies that back it up (?) haven't searched for studies myself, yet. I will keep you posted!"

Is your llmd an experienced one?

I ask because Western blots can't be used to determine when you're in remission.
It's based on your immune system mounting a response - and often with lyme our immune system isn't strong enough...resulting in false negatives.

Plus - you had an Igenex WB IgG positive test!!!

Yes he’s one of the top LLMDs in the country. Dr. H on the west coast.
Posted 7/13/2019 5:10 PM (GMT 0)

Netterz said...

Girlie said...
"Hi Girlie, thank you. The test results are for 'Borreliosis Western Blot, IgM and IgG'. I was previously CDC positive on both, now negative (both IGX and CDC standards) for IgM as only band 41 is showing one + , IgG is positive by IGX standards only. For Babesia Duncani it was a IFA - IgM, positive is >=40 and mine came back at 80. IFA- IgG was negative.

LLMD said that the proguanil in Malarone has an antibiotic effect comparable to Mepron + Azith, without having the intestinal microbiome-destroying side effects. Malarone in itself doesn't have enough atovaquone to treat an active infection, so they pair it with Mepron. My initial dosing instructions are Malarone 1 pill BID and Mepron 1 tsp BID, and I have a lab order to check my blood levels 2 weeks after starting treatment. Health insurance covered the whole treatment so they must have some studies that back it up (?) haven't searched for studies myself, yet. I will keep you posted!"

Is your llmd an experienced one?

I ask because Western blots can't be used to determine when you're in remission.
It's based on your immune system mounting a response - and often with lyme our immune system isn't strong enough...resulting in false negatives.

Plus - you had an Igenex WB IgG positive test!!!

Yes he’s one of the top LLMDs in the country. Dr. H on the west coast.

==========================

And he uses a WB to determine if lyme is in remission?
Yikes!
Posted 7/15/2019 1:20 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

Netterz said...

Girlie said...
"Hi Girlie, thank you. The test results are for 'Borreliosis Western Blot, IgM and IgG'. I was previously CDC positive on both, now negative (both IGX and CDC standards) for IgM as only band 41 is showing one + , IgG is positive by IGX standards only. For Babesia Duncani it was a IFA - IgM, positive is >=40 and mine came back at 80. IFA- IgG was negative.

LLMD said that the proguanil in Malarone has an antibiotic effect comparable to Mepron + Azith, without having the intestinal microbiome-destroying side effects. Malarone in itself doesn't have enough atovaquone to treat an active infection, so they pair it with Mepron. My initial dosing instructions are Malarone 1 pill BID and Mepron 1 tsp BID, and I have a lab order to check my blood levels 2 weeks after starting treatment. Health insurance covered the whole treatment so they must have some studies that back it up (?) haven't searched for studies myself, yet. I will keep you posted!"

Is your llmd an experienced one?

I ask because Western blots can't be used to determine when you're in remission.
It's based on your immune system mounting a response - and often with lyme our immune system isn't strong enough...resulting in false negatives.

Plus - you had an Igenex WB IgG positive test!!!

Yes he’s one of the top LLMDs in the country. Dr. H on the west coast.

==========================

And he uses a WB to determine if lyme is in remission?
Yikes!

I don't want to doxx my LLMD but he was on the consulting board when Igenex developed their tests. Look, I'm not sure why the 'knowledge-flexing' on my testing when I didn't ask for any advice on that, it's not helpful to me at all. You have only 1 data point - zero history of any previous types of testing I received and the results, and limited information on my overall treatment history and plans therefore you're in no position to judge my Dr's choices. Thanks in advance for refraining from any further comments on my Dr's testing preferences or anything else I didn't ask for.
Posted 7/15/2019 3:24 PM (GMT 0)
Sorry you’re offended but this is a forum where you came for feedback/advice

I shares some info with you.
Take it or leave it.
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