How / why is it that some healthcare "professionals" still claim lyme is no big deal?

Excellent question. It reminds me of the Plato's Allegory of the Cave. They want to stay in the cave because it's safe. They like the official story they see on the wall. They want to believe that their controllers have their best interest at heart. They won't see the light until someone forces them to go outside. Once they see the light, and they go back in to tell people what reality is, no one wants to believe them, and the crowd shuns them. Although once you get to a certain critical mass, say 50 percent of the people have gone outside, then it's pretty hard to deny reality. I think the lyme epidemic is getting to that point swiftly. Lyme deniers will soon be flat-earthers.

I agree with the brain washing theory to a large extent. I’m sure some would gladly believe the truth and be willing to read it if it was presented to them in the right way. However, corporate mindsets are hard to change, especially from the outside in, if that’s possible at all. You might reach a few, who would eventually leave to practice functional medicine that aligns more with this more truth-seeking way of thinking.

Make no mistake about it, healthcare is most definitely a corporation.

It is still quite mind boggling professionals are still saying this, but I can tell you from experience, more Doctors are talking about it now because more patients are sicker than ever, at least in my home state of Michigan. I think everyone in my state may know at least one patient with lyme. It's still inconceivable how they down play the disease, along with bartonella and babesia. I think this will be a learning lesson to separate business and government, prevent the lobbyism from corrupting medical groups like the CDC and IDSA. As I highly suspect they've downplayed it so insurance companies don't have to cover patients longterm, as what they're suing the IDSA and insurance companies like blue cross down in Texas.
https://www.courthousenews.com/insurers-accused-conspiring-deny-lyme-disease-coverage/

I like what Dr. J said in the second Under Our Skin documentaries, as he said the "lie is now to big to confess." I suspect something like chronic lyme and the corruption behind it, could very well sink insurance companies as well the IDSA with lawsuits, just like glyphosate is doing to Monsanto and opioids is doing to Purdue.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/oxycontin-maker-purdue-pharma-nears-partial-settlement-of-opioid-litigation-readies-bankruptcy-filing.html

Monsanto has lied about the side effects of Glyphosate. Purdue lied about side effects of Opioids. Hundreds of thousands of people have died, I suspect the same goes for Chronic Lyme, but who knows how really bad it is, as know one collects the statistics on how many are misdiangosed with MS, Parkinsons ALS, Lupus, Fibromyalgia, etc...

Question is, why is the IDSA and even Wormser could the drug Tafenoquine revolutionize treatment of Babesia microti Infection? When they claim Babesia is an easy to cure parasite and have very mild symptoms for most patients with a spleen, something doesn't add up.
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article-abstract/220/3/442/5490825?redirectedfrom=fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31099380

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 9/15/2019 3:01:09 PM (GMT-6)

What running wild said is pretty much what I was intimating. My best friend is a nurse. She is devoted to the system in spite of the fact that her entire family has had major health issues, surgeries, and autoimmune.

When her kids got major gut problems and doctors couldn’t figure it out, I told her she should take them to a Functional MD in order to get to the root of the problem. She can’t afford the out of pocket cost because she already pays outrageous premiums and deductibles for medical insurance. I think she realizes conventional medicine isn’t going to get to the root problems. She seems content with having surgeries and taking drugs to mask everything, as if there were no alternatives.

When I told her about the intense reactions I got the day the leak was discovered under the kitchen sink and the resultant onset of MCAS symptoms and how I could no longer go inside the house without being suited up, she suggested it was psychological. Asked me if I thought it was because I was aware that there had been a leak. I said, Oh, you mean do I think it’s psychological? Then I explained how I know it isn’t psychological.

It is very clear that medical professionals as a group are led to believe that anything THEY cannot see, hear, feel, or measure with what little testing they are willing to do is psychological in nature. Call it “group think,” and it’s very powerful. We hear this story over and over from person after person who comes here and shares their experiences.

I think it’s a combination of arrogance, ignorance, and apathy. Arrogance in believing anything they didn’t learn in medical school couldn’t possibly be real or scientifically proven. Ignorance because they follow the leader instead of researching the facts themselves. Apathy because they don’t have the time or curiosity to investigate mysteries.

WalkingbyFaith said...
I think she realizes conventional medicine isn’t going to get to the root problems. She seems content with having surgeries and taking drugs to mask everything, as if there were no alternatives.

Yep... The whole medical establishment is controlled by corporations now and they're in the business of disease management and symptoms maintenance, not curing.

A lot of diseases can be treated with supplements, vitamins and correct dieting. Sadly Doctors answer for everything is a drug, whether it's high cholesterol, common cold, or pain. Sure there's good Doctors out there that will sometimes get to the root of the problem and think out of the box, like using garlic supplement for cholesterol and changing a patients diet, or cbd/thc oil or turmeric for pain, and cats claw for the common cold, but it's very rare.

I suspect the Doctors would rather take the word of big pharma and insurance companies, than the word of their lyme patients and good organizations like the ILADS and Stephen Buhner, especially when they're given kickbacks for drugs like opioids.

There's just too many chronic lyme patients now and too much evidence for the medical establishment and Doctors to still be ignoring lyme patients, it's inexcusable. Look at what Harvard writes on their website about a chronic infection with lyme...
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/lyme-disease-resolving-the-lyme-wars-2018061814071

Harvard said...
There are a few case studies in the medical literature describing people who continued to have evidence of infection despite adequate treatment, but in most cases there is no laboratory proof the bacteria is still present.

A few case studies? The Embers Study, Dr. Zhang's study on persister cells, Dr. Kim Lewis study on Persister Cells from Northeastern, John Hopkins study 1 in 5 still be prevelant, and also the recent study from Yale showing that Babesia has low susceptibility to these therapies.

My honest opinion is that Babesia is the main reason that many lyme patients are staying chronic for years, that's why I suspect it took a ton of primaquine, coartem, then following up with csa formula/a-bab. Even Dr. J in DC believes for a lot of chronic lyme patients Babesia is the dominant infection, knock that out, it makes both borrelia, bartonella and a whole lot of other coinfections a lot easier to treat. It's very likely that Babesia has dormant parasites like malaria's dormant hypnozoites that hide out in the liver and need a special drug like primaquine or tafenoquine to completely eradicate this dormant form.

Again, this goes back to why Oxford all of a sudden has an article talking about how tafenoquine may be a radical breakthrough treatment for Babesia.
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article-abstract/220/3/442/5490825?redirectedfrom=fulltext

Again the Universities and even the IDSA knows that Babesia is a very resistant parasite, hence the Yale study again.

Just like Dr. J said in the sequel to Under Our Skin, the lie is to big to confess now. The medical establishment isn't going out to flat out make statements saying they were completely wrong about chronic lyme, I suspect it could build a major distrust in the medical establishment and how much influence these corporations like Blue Cross have on the IDSA/CDC. Because as you see, there's already a major lawsuit down in Texas against the IDSA and Blue Cross.. They're going to slowly change their vibe, make statements like there's "few case studies in the medical literature describing people who continued to have evidence of infection." But really, time is running out for them and drugs like disulfiram and tafenoquine are on the horizon and my suspicion is even though the IDSA/CDC and these other universities like Oxford that support them are going to slowly change their opinion, I think it's too late, cats out of the bag because a drug like disulfiram will absolutely show chronic lyme is an active infection once it starts to cure, and it's already happening with Doctor Liegner's recent study curing 2 out of 3 patients with chronic lyme and babesia. Again, another study you can add to Harvard's "few case studies..." They're flat out liars and they're probably scrambling for ways to cover everything up.

WalkingbyFaith said...


I think it’s a combination of arrogance, ignorance, and apathy. Arrogance in believing anything they didn’t learn in medical school couldn’t possibly be real or scientifically proven. Ignorance because they follow the leader instead of researching the facts themselves. Apathy because they don’t have the time or curiosity to investigate mysteries.

Yes I suspect that too, as you can tell the difference in personality between someone like Wormser/Shapiro and Dr.B/Dr.H/Dr.J/Stephen Buhner/Dr. Rawls. They are great people and want to help people. I get a Bernie Madoff, lack of empathy, narcisitic vibe Doctors like Wormser and Shapiro. It is what it is... Some of these Doctors and Scientists see dollar signs and it goes to their head. And I suppose a system that's now based on putting doctors in debt from school and based on greed, I suspect that's why many Doctors act like robots when you go into see them and they're reading right out of a big pharma manuscript. What I'm getting at is, a greedy, corrupt system breeds Doctors like this and until we change the system, nothing is going to change. Remind you this country was originally based on a republic, by the people for the people, not by the corporations for the corporations.

Even princeton did a study showing we live under an oligarchy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

BBC.com said...

The US is dominated by a rich and powerful elite.

And I suspect as this same supposed perfect system is yet to fail yet again, as it did back in 2008, remind you everyone's talking of a recession coming. They'll end up bailing the big banks out with middle and lower class money, meanwhile corporate CEOs and the Sackler family hardly pay no federal tax, and keep their billions in banks overseas.

You all hear this, just in the news a few days ago, Purdue's Sackler Family was caught wiring billions of dollars over to Swiss Banks so the courts would not be aware of their true worth in opioid settlement case.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7462273/family-oxycontin-used-swiss-bank-accounts-conceal-transfers.html
https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/purdue-pharma-sackler-family-swiss-bank-accounts

I suspect much of you what's going on, but want to be told some type of fairy tale why Doctors aren't changing, why don't they have any empathy for us. I've seen the same people who have chronic lyme have no emapthy for those seeking social security disability, I'm not going to name names, but I've seen it with my own eyes on the forums and even in the public. The system is set up purposely this way... It's funny, because I've seen some of the own Men in my family who claim to bad ass Libertarians when they were younger, that claim need no government assistance at all, but the years of eating fast food and then developing chronic inflammation and a bad back, same Libertarians are trying to retire on disability. This is what's going on... Men who think they're entitled while thinking others deserve dogsh!t when they become sick, especially if it's of a person of different race. What I see is, majority of people have no emapthy for others anymore, so nothing changes. Question is, as 40% of the work force goes away due to automation, how are people going to treat one another as there will not be enough jobs and money to go around. And what's hilarious is, these same people don't give a crap about one another, would rather go after someone who they think is faking disability with something like chronic lyme, than Sackler Family who's getting away with murdering hundreds of thousands of Americans and not paying a single dime on taxing their billions of dollars in banks overseas. And this same oligarchy that gets away with it, knows how to work these same people and putting out propaganda so they have no empathy for others, just like the Doctors that have no emapthy for you, the chronic lyme patients.

The bottom line is, until we change a system that seeks to support big pharma and corporations in general, Doctors will keep going along with guidelines set by pharmaceutical companies that claim drugs like opioids are safe and health insurance companies that don't want to pay when you get a chronic disease. I mean come on, chronic lyme isn't the only disease these insurance companies aren't skipping out on, I heard it all the time with rehabilitation treatment, cancer, the new hepatitic c drug cure. I mean look at the way the government and healthcare system treated the 9/11 first responders, "breathing problems started almost immediately, they were told they weren't sick, they were crazy. Then as the illnesses got worse and more apparent, well you're sick but not from the pile. Then when the science became irrefutable, ok it's the pile." Truth is America's healthcare system has needed an overhual for a very long time.
https://youtu.be/y2qmqsnvwuc?t=213

Anyways, this is just my opinion, doesn't mean I'm right, but I suspect this is what's going on, I don't sugar coat things. I guess I could be out carrying on with my life like most are that have "healed with lyme," as I just got back from running 5 miles, but guess I stay on the forum because I also want to help others, at least try, because I do have empathy and want to see lives saved. I'm sure other members on here may have a different outlook on that, lol, that's fine. Everyone has different opinions and outlooks on what's going on with chronic lyme, I'm sure we're all wrong when it comes to certain aspects of this covered up epidemic, but I think some of you are looking for easy answer, while something like the coverup of chronic lyme goes deep into the corruption of the USA and even the military industrial complex, which many won't even knowledge the biowarfare aspect.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 9/17/2019 3:48:09 PM (GMT-6)

jb1994 said...

Charlie, I'm sure babesia is a factor but it's my opinion that every co-infection (especially bartonella, in my case anyway) is the main reason why we stay "chronic". My understanding is most of the population would test positive for a Lyme Igenex test but because they don't have these co-infections they aren't taken down by it.

I agree, I do think all three coinfections are keeping us sick, however, if there's a dominant coinfection that's keeping lyme patients chronically sick and you don't do use the proper drug or herb to eradicate that dominant coinfection, it's very likely that the other two will be impossible to eradicate. I've heard other members report on here that Dr. J thinks this, a top LLMD, he's treated thousands of lyme patients, so it's very likely it could be the case, and a lot more likely than mold, EMF exposure, heavy metals, parasites, and other theories like even an imbalanced microbiome(Dr. Kim Lewis). And I suspect chronic lyme is different for people in different regions of each country, as something like babesia and bartonella are probably more dominant in the northeast of the USA. But I think the main topic at hand is why majority of lyme patients aren't reaching remission anymore within 2-5 years like they did in the 90s or early 2000 after contracting borrelia. I suspect not everyone has babesia and there may be other coinfection like the swiss agent that plays a factor, rickettsia or even mycopslasma(which our lovely government holds a patent on), but I'd say that for most chronic lyme patients past 5 years of treatment, babesia is the main reason. And again, just my opinion, I very well could be wrong. I gotta start saying this at the end of all my posts because other members on here want forums threads entirely deleted after Charlie chimes in, lol...

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 9/15/2019 8:10:47 PM (GMT-6)

I think most practitioners privately would admit something is going on. Most MD's work for a hospital system which reports to an insurance company. So if they start treating something that "does not exist". They risk their paycheck. What would you do?? I don't know what I would do its easy to sit back and say I would buck the system but I don't know. We have all done something at work we thought was ridiculous because we were told to do it.

Just wanted to add in relation to my last post. In regards to looking for root causes in the form of chronic infections (bacterial, viral, fungal, parasitic), environmental toxicity, etc., this is completely foreign to conventional doctors and patients who have not had any experience with functional medicine, naturopathy, or other alternative medicine.

The only reason we understand these things is because we have experienced them or at least read about them. We understand many things that conventional doctors don’t including testing they are not aware of, issues with lab ranges they don’t think about, and the benefits of supplements and herbs they are not familiar with.

I listen to a podcast that talks about the medical profession corruption almost once a week called Health Masters "The Ted & Austin Broer Show", its commercial free and Christian/conservative based. They talk mainly about news politics, so I wasn't sure if I should post it here but it is what it is. (*please don't segway into politics, politicize or polarize from my comment, I am apolitical), but their conversations on corrupted medical industrial complex is spot on.

I'm not sure if I can post a link here but if you google "Health masters Ted Austin Broer" and find their site, click on right "Click to listen to live and archived show"

I agree that a lot of it has to do with getting in trouble but at the same time can't they acknowledge that it's not just in our heads? I mean really, it's adding insult to injury. Just acknowledge there is something physically wrong with us even if you can't treat it/don't "know" what it is (meaning won't admit it's Lyme).

Many Drs do seem to lack "hands on skills" that the looked down on (why is that??) skilled trades people (the good ones) depend on to make a living.

Health Drs get paid if they're right or wrong. What other profession does that?

Hard Science PHD Drs are the same way (not all). Some cant tie their shoes, or see no need to do so despite tripping over them. Ive worked side by side with some of these "highly intelligent idiots". Companies will make new positions for these people... sometimes many times before finally firing them or presenting the "severance package".

Post Edited (astroman) : 9/22/2019 9:08:38 PM (GMT-6)

All it takes to get a medical degree is good memorization skills, that's all I'll say