Tick Diseases Test Through Vibrant Wellness

Ugh, that's annoying, but good to know.

I wonder if there are other more reliable tests that are in that same range that covers lyme and coinfections? I've done DNA Connexions in the past and it was unreliable.

Post Edited (NicHostetler) : 2/21/2020 10:37:12 AM (GMT-7)

Also, I don’t trust DNA connexions either. Listened to a podcast with dr neil nathan and evan brand and dr nathan does not feel accurate.

Post Edited (k07) : 2/21/2020 8:46:41 AM (GMT-7)

K07,

Yes, I totally agree! It seems great! My PCP mentioned that they told her that they use some sort of micro beads to to break the cells in the blood to help get even better, more accurate results since, as we all know, certain coinfections like to live in the red blood cells.

I think I may give it a shot.. I know it wont be 100% accurate, but maybe it could help lead me more in the right direction. I think if everything is negative I could more safely assume that I should be looking other directions than lyme at this point. Maybe mold, CIRS, MCAS, parasites, etc.

$600 really isn't all that much when you compare it to the amount of money that I'm paying to try supplements for things that I am not even sure I am still dealing with..

Yes we did!

I saw that... Ridiculous!

I will definitely let you know. Right now, I am wrapping up the DesBio Borrelia/Babesia series vials. Do you think that could affect the results of the testing? If DesBio contains DNA of borrelia, wouldn't that possibly create a false positive result?

Yeah.. my PCP said she would wait a couple of weeks after finishing before testing. But she recommended taking Japanese Knotweed to "stir the Lyme up" for a week or so leading up to testing.

Granted she's just a PCP, not an LLMD, but she does seem pretty knowledgeable.

Just to add on to what K07 said - LLMD MR “said” he doesn’t think DNA Connexions is a good lab for testing.

Nic - I saw you posted on another thread that you are awaiting your Vibrant results. Please post when you get them! I did get my micronutrient test back from them - took about 3 weeks. Is that how long the tickborne test takes?

MDL, in my humble opinion, is the best lab.

First off, i'm just going to say it, I'm very suspect of IgeneX and Galaxy...I wouldnt trust their results. Something smells, everyone gets a positive diagnosis. As much as we hate to admit it, lyme is a business like any other, and they cater to that business. I had these suspicions confirmed by a prominent LLMD I used to see, who told me she wont use either for those reasons.

W respect to MDL. Most people dont know it but the problem with a standard Western Blot is that its subjective. The technician is trained to mark a band positive if it shows 40% density by visual inspection. 40% to one technician is different than 40% to another, hence the reason you can send away 3 western blots to 3 different technicians and get 3 different results. MDL labs uses spectroscopy to establish density, so its scientific, mathematical and objective. They also provide you with an image of the bands themselves so you can see for yourself.

I'm not especially attached to any sort of Lyme testing, but I can say that I tested negative through IGeneX when I was very ill. I got a positive PCR test through DNA ConneXions which many criticize as showing "too many" positive results, but in my case it identified two unusual strains of co-infections of which I had distinctive symptoms. I had several negative ELISA tests and Western Blots through LabCorp early on, and more recently one was positive. Also had a positive test through LabCorp for Borrelia hermsii and Mycoplasma.

I think this controversy is just more motivation to consider Lyme a clinical diagnosis.

I am curious what an appropriate rate of positive results is. People are upset that the standard lab tests yield too many false negatives, but people are also upset that PCR tests yield too many positives. How do we know what the actual rate of illness is if all the tests are unreliable? And if we don't know the actual rate of illness, then how can we say a test produces too many false positives...?

I am a big fan of Neil Nathan's work and listened to the aforementioned podcast, and still I don't feel like I understand his position on this.

dcd2103 said...

First off, i'm just going to say it, I'm very suspect of IgeneX and Galaxy...I wouldnt trust their results. Something smells, everyone gets a positive diagnosis.

No. Not so. I had the same experience as saraeli. My Labcorp WB was positive on band 41, but my CIRS doctor didn’t tell me that meant anything. That doctor tried to put all my illness on mold, and it just didn’t jive with my medical or environmental history.

After having horrible worsening of symptoms on Cholestyramine (which I knew from Shoemaker’s CIRS work was indicative of Lyme or MARCONS and having already had a negative MARCONS test), I pressed the doctor about Lyme. She suggested Igenex, so I did the test Band 41 was positive again and 39 Indeterminate both IgG and IgM. That resulted in an overall negative from Igenex.

That time, the doctor told me (and I later learned doctors are required to tell you) that even though the result was negative, I could still have Lyme. When I asked how I could find out for sure, she told me about the DNA Connexions test. I did it. Results were positive for Borrelia burgdorferri and Ehrlichia chafeensis. Lab notes indicated that the actual findings suggested a long term infection. I had been sick for 6.5 years by that time. I also learned that my state is the epicenter for ehrlichia. I have never doubted the positive results I got from DNA Connexions and have no reason to doubt it. I will add that I have strong clinical evidence of bartonella, yet I did not test positive for it with DNA Connexions.

The doctor said it didn’t mean I had an active infection. I don’t believe that. A positive WB reveals antibodies, whereas the DNA test identifies actual bacterial DNA in the sample. The bacteria is in my body, and I have had symptoms now for 10.5 years. Bottom line - that doctor did not want to deal with Lyme, and I left her soon after. My current doctor doesn’t use DNA Connexions. I’m not even sure what lab(s) she uses for TBD.

I have not tested with Galaxy, as I have never doubted I have bartonella in spite of no positive test. However, to my knowledge, they are the premier testing lab for bartonella. As such, I would expect more tests would be positive from that lab and would expect their testing to be more sensitive and accurate.

I have heard of MDL before, but the doctors I saw didn’t mention it. I don’t really understand the controversy over the different labs and why doctors choose some and distrust others. I never delved deeply into that.

I also see dcd’s point. I’m sure there’s some people being treated for lyme and it’s actually not their main issue. Goes both ways.

I’m intrigued by Vibrant test bc it tests for a lot of pathogens, including rmsf which I’m igg + through Labcorp. The problem is how to decipher if it’s causing symptoms.

NicHostetler,

Did you ever get your vibrant-wellness results? And did you also get an MDLabs? Wondering what your experience was like...I noticed an expanded set of pathogens they could detect:

https://www.vibrant-wellness.com/tests/tickborne-disease/#1527504422796-ce510636-2662

On their tick borne disease webpage it lists a plethora of antigens that they test for BUT, then the sample only lists a few... see here:
https://www.vibrant-wellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/lyme-tbrf-sample-report.pdf

it looks like is should be a more expanded and extended list than IGenex..but where are all the other antigen tests on the sample?

(and these are antigens and how useful is that if the suppressed immune system has long stopped making them?...but I digress...)

I don't understand these tests in a very technical way, but someone mentioned MDLabs using a scientific data point (instead of a lab technician eyeballing it via microscope say) of 40% to go from indeterminate to positive on the IgG/IgM blots, seems more technically accurate I would say...

I always wanted to do "the works" with MD Labs, wonder how much that would cost...

And there is no pricing information on Vibrant Wellness, like if someone wanted the entire tick-borne panel, what would that price be?...including stuff like Tularemia, Mycoplasma, Babesia, Bart, etc...

I only have very limited experience with IGenex, (due to lack of funds or real insurance) I don't remember what it was called basic western blot tick panel or something, that's all I could afford... but it was around ~$350.00 (600?) USD or so. I had been on some Buhner's herbs and actually felt pretty awful the day of the blood draw... I think it was Teasel Root extract, Cats Claw may have stirred my immune system up to where I got a positive blot on the 31 band (very lyme specific, see Dr. H LLMD's "lyme bingo") and a few others, and some indeterminate.

If I knew how many other pathogens (more than the usual 3 B's Bart, Babs, Borrelia) still gumming up my works, it might be easier to narrow down what herbal/abx protocols to continue with...