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Did Rifampin do this to others?

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Posted 9/5/2020 3:07 PM (GMT 0)
my major ocd symptoms and intrusive thoughts are back. They reared their ugly head 10 years ago ( well before I saught lyme treatment) i wont get into great detail but it was an absolute horrifying time for my family and I and we all prayed I'd never face that again. Well now its back and I am absolutely devastated and scared, on top of the physical pain and agony to boot from the Bartonella ( and if you can even call it a Rifampin herx) So its double trouble.

Whhhyyyyyy this now? I had so much faith in this drug. I reached out to my LLMD via email on Thursday and since she was on vacation her office manager told me to discontinue the Rifampin and re-assess on Tuesday when she's back.

Do I take comfort in knowing that its the Rifampin doing this and that im not really "crazy"? Yes absolutely. However its still frightening because it's day 3 since I stopped the Rifampin, heavily detoxing and no relief. I have this underlying worry the Rifampin triggered something that could last several months, something I dealt with 10 years ago. My family is well aware of this too. I dont want to be back on psych drugs to "clear it away". I know Rifampin is an ugly harsh drug and psych symptoms can be overwhelming during a herx. But is this normal? Can it bring out paranoia and old traumatic memories?

What's a good Rifampin substitute?

Thanks đź’š
Posted 9/5/2020 3:36 PM (GMT 0)
It could be just a Bart herx, as I think Bart is known to cause what you are describing.

Or could Rifampin trigger another infection to come roaring out? Like would you possibly need something in addition to Rifampin to cover bases? Just asking. Maybe others will comment on this and regarding what other ABX you could use.

Hope this ends soon.
Posted 9/5/2020 4:52 PM (GMT 0)
You are taking another antibiotic with the rifampin, right?
Posted 9/5/2020 4:57 PM (GMT 0)
In my experience bartonella herxes don’t get much relief from detox. I believe the causation of symptoms is different than a traditional herx and more related to cell danger response, but that’s a whole other conversation.

My bart herx form abx last 3 weeks from around day 7-10 when it started. I know it might be hard, but try not to stress or get mad about it, that will just stress out your CNS more.

I’d recommend looking into DNRS until you can get back with your doc. Herbals might be the way to go if you’re too sensitive for abx. I also took buhners protocol with the abx, stopped abx after month 5 and now just on herbals.
Posted 9/5/2020 5:01 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie yes I was on Clarithromycin.
Posted 9/5/2020 5:31 PM (GMT 0)

Sunflower1920 said...
Girlie yes I was on Clarithromycin.

There is an alternative to Rifampin.
Rifabutin - but I found the herxes to be brutal with Rifabutin.

My first lyme doc had me take Rifampin - I tolerated it fairly well - and it resolved a lot of symptoms while on it.

Now I take Rifabutin.
Posted 9/5/2020 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
Yea she told me right before she prescribed the Rifampin that after 3 weeks if I had improvement then she'd give me the Rifabutin. At this point Rifabutin would be pointless and probably more harmful to me if anything since I couldn't tolerate the Rifampin. I'll see what she says on Tuesday and keep you all posted.
Posted 9/5/2020 5:37 PM (GMT 0)
It is more likely the clarithromycin is causing the psych issues.

"Clarithromycin-induced psychosis is an extremely rare but recognized CNS side effect with unclear pathogenesis. A case study in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease describes a 49-year-old woman with no psychiatric history who exhibited symptoms of psychosis after initiation of triple therapy that included clarithromycin for gastritis with Helicobacter pylori infection."
Posted 9/5/2020 5:39 PM (GMT 0)
Echoing everything Loski01 said - Bartonella herxes can be brutal, they can last weeks, stress is the enemy, cell danger response, DNRS, some are too sensitive for full doses of antibiotics or even any antibiotics, try Buhner starting slowly.

Also, I am so sorry. I can tell that this is not just scary in and of itself, but that it's also very triggering for you. I definitely feel almost panicked when even hints of old symptoms resurface. There is a path out of this.
Posted 9/5/2020 5:45 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Carl, I have almost 100％ certainty it is infact the Rifampin. When I first entered treatment over a year ago I was prescribed 3 abx, one of them being Clarithromycin, same dosage. I never had an issue with it. Could there still be a very small possibility? Maybe the Rifampin and Clarithromycin TOGETHER are causing it. I'll keep that in mind but I do not believe it's likely, I'll still ask my llmd anyway. Thanks
Posted 9/5/2020 5:51 PM (GMT 0)
Yes on top of everything else Sara its very unnecessary and heartbreaking.
Posted 9/5/2020 9:11 PM (GMT 0)
Rifampin seems to be more tolerable for me at this point than Rifabutin.
Posted 9/6/2020 4:38 AM (GMT 0)

ChristianWithLyme said...
Rifampin seems to be more tolerable for me at this point than Rifabutin.

I tolerated rifampin better than Rifabutin too.

I’m pretty sure Rifabutin is “stronger” than Rifampin.

Dr M (bart guru) has patients start with Rifampin - and then later on switch to Rifabutin.

Dr J usually prescribes Rifabutin (not Rifampin)
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