herbs stirred up bart?

increased symptoms due to treatment are very common
as are new symptoms during treatment

the term we use for this is Herxhiemer reactions or "herx like reactions" in recognition of the fact that they often go on longer than the original reactions described by DR Herxhiemer in his syphilis patients where the original term came from.

the original phenomenon is thought to be caused by a sudden production of biotoxins and dead bacterial debris released by killing the microorganism. bacterial debris and toxins tend to be extremely immunogenic - meaning they illicit strong reactions from our immune system.

however the original cases documented in syphilis and later in other bacterial reactions tended to be very short - starting a few hours after administration of antibiotics and lasting a few days at most

many patients here report effects lasting weeks which are much harder to explain. it is however a very common phenomenon in those with Chronic Lyme group infections.

the usual advice is detox lots and reduce dosage or take a break from herbs/abx until it settles down
then restart at a lower dose and gradually work up.

several of us here have noted how these reactions can be stronger if anything with herbs than with most antibiotics
that is certainly the case for me
houttuynia, sida, teasel, cryptolepis, and berberine containing herbs seem to cause very strong and long lasting "herx like effects" for me

but i have found i can start low and build up slowly over time and now take more than 20x the original dose that caused me to have strong herx like effects.

Thank you. That is all helpful to know.

I have been on low doses of Buhner protocol for lyme & bartonella for a number of years & was doing well. Bart then seemed to have gotten activated again May 2020, so I decided to find a natural practioner who could do medical testing to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I wanted some oversight for my treatment program since I had been doing everything myself for several years.

She likes to use Byron White formulas & convinced me that the way she has structured the protocol, the herx reactions are minimal & I get to control the speed of increasing the dosages. I have been impressed that so far I have not had reactions to the formulas, which I had previously been averse to taking because they are formulas as opposed to easily regulated individual herbs.

I have continued on my Buhner protocol while I slowly built up the drops for the Byron White protocol. After building up to the number of drops she required for NT-Detox & A-Inflam, I began the A-Bart formula. A few days later I started to get pain in my knees, ankle, & various locations in my spine, frontal headaches, & muscle pain/tightness. These are the symptoms I am questioning could be bart being stirred up as this particular formula was introduced. There are several other things going on in my life right now that it is hard to know if bart is the culprit. Interestingly, the past 24 hours I have not had any of those symptoms.

Thanks for your help.