Are fermented foods recommended?

i have lots of gut symptoms with lyme and suspected bartonella

i have tried many many things to try and get on top of it - but basically anything which
-kills bacteria
-adds more bacteria ( probiotics or fermented foods)
-feeds existing bacteria ( prebiotics )
leads to increased gut symptoms for me

so sauerkraut and other home fermented veg did cause a reaction.

however by going very low and slow i have been able to build up tolerance to them - and i think they are overall beneficial - more just a case that the gut environment is not well suited to them when it is inflamed. this is harder to do with probiotics - as they are fixed doses - whereas with fermented foods you can start with literally one piece of sauerkraut

as to milk based ferments and general reactivity to probiotics - whether by MCAS or some other kind of immune reactivity - it is different for every person - so you can only try eliminating and then a controlled trial and see how you get on.

btw - the biggest single thing that helped all gut related symptoms and also systemic ones - was to change to a ketogenic wholefood diet. probiotics / ferments effects were negligible compared to this

Hi Brandiwine,

I just bumped an old thread about fermented foods:

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2700361

Hope this helps,
Denise

I think fermented foods are awesome for us, with a caveat.

I am not sure to what degree I have leaky gut. I suspect that I have leaky gut, although the comprehensive stool testing from Genova (multiple times) didn't indicate it, and RAST testing yielded no sensitivities (my LLMD said he'd never seen such a "clean" set of results). That said, I do have mast cell activation syndrome, and fermented foods are my #1 trigger, by far, so I eliminated them completely. This makes me sad on a daily basis!

Some strains of probiotics are considered high-histamine. Here's a list: https://wholenewmom.com/low-histamine-probiotics/ The Ortho Molecular OrthoBiotic probiotic is the only one I've found and tried with entirely low-histamine or histamine-neutral strains, but I'm sure there are others. Companies I have called have said that their probiotics are fine for people with MCAS despite the high-histamine strains because they contain strains that actively lower histamine and quell inflammatory responses, but I'm not sure what science there is to back up that claim.

So if you tolerate histamine fine, then from what I've read and found convincing (and you're right, people's opinions vary so much!), they're powerhouses for your microbiome, which anyone with dysbiosis or chronic infections needs to be addressing.

Garzie said...


i was losing weight before the keto diet ( strictly food - no additional ketones - they are entirely unnecessary - just a money spinner for the supplement industry )

i manage my weight up or down with keto simply by adding more or less healthy fats to each meal
extra virgin olive oil
extra virgin coconut oil
grass fed butter ( if you handle dairy - or clarified butter if not )
fatty cuts of grass fed beef

the protein content and tolerated vegetables remain the same - just adding an extra table spoon of any of these fats per meal is enough to nudge my weight up if needed.

i am around 5' 11" and 185lbs and getting stronger

hope this helps

Garzie, you and I follow almost exactly the same diet. Pretty standard ketogenic diet though, so not surprising. Just wanted to mention a couple notes. First, Mary R hates beans when youre rebuilding the microbiome. I know in the past you've mentioned green beans, but she doesnt like them. I think its the type of fiber and the high lectin count. I tend to take her recommendations as she's well researched and hasnt steered me wrong.

But more importantly, she really likes her patients in ketosis to be on inulin. It's a prebiotic fiber shown to specifically target the good bacteria. I know that many drs out there like Will Busciewicz think all fiber is good for everyone. Through my discussions with her, and research I've read, this often isnt the case. Resistant starches and many kinds of dietary fiber will feed both good and bad bacteria, so it's often great for healthy people, not so great for people with compromised guts. Her approach is to limit a lot of types of fibers and starches that tend to cause problems, and then feed the good guys w/ pre-biotics. I think beans are one of the ones she limits. I know, the research on good vs bad isnt complete, but I think there's some good data on certain prebiotics (PHGG, inulin, GOS), and the inulin has worked great for me (takes a few days to adjust and causes some people some flatulence first). It also grabs bile/toxins much like a binder, which is an added benefit. Just some minor tweaks which may help.

potatoes are generally a good source of healthy starches - if you do well on starches - i did for years until getting lyme - and potatoes worked better for me than pasta or other starch sources at that time. not since lyme though - all starches now give me increased gut symptoms and increased systemic symptoms to boot!

however - many in the auto-immune world believe in avoiding things from the potatoes family - (all nightshades) as this group of plants seems ot be more reactive for many with auto-immune illnesses.

unfortunately it is all kind of individual - but you can apply the - "if in doubt avoid" rule till you know where you are - then do careful trials of adding stuff back in and see how you get on. ultimately this is all anyone can really do - i think the food sensitivity testing is largely unreliable

Dcd - wanted to discuss inulin a bit more - so will start a new thread on that top avoid taking Brandiwine's one any further off track