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Question about dry mouth, uric acid,mag citrate, electrolytes and other stuff

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Posted 9/23/2021 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
So still doing quite well w my combined ketosis + Spero clinic neuro rehab. It’s been quite a journey but I do feel myself improving, and am hopeful I can make it to a remission of sorts. I don’t think I could have improved this much wo both interventions, but that’s a story for another day.

I did notice in recent labs that my uric acid is standing at a 7.7, so a bit risky here. I do not want to develop gout, and please don’t respond about how awful it is making me nervous. It was a 5.1 in 2019.

I quickly aimed to determine why it’s high. Immediately the internet is going to tell you that ketosis causes uric acid to rise because animal meats contain purines. I knew immediately that this doesn’t smell right. I’ve always eaten large amounts of animal meat. Maybe I eat 14oz a day average vs 8 in the past. No way that difference could cause that rise. There is research that shows that uric acid will rise dramatically in the first few weeks of ketosis as the body can’t distinguish between uric acid and ketones to filter them, but I’m 4 months in and this normalizes in a few weeks, so it’s not that.

I then began to think about how I’ve been cavalier about electrolytes and hydration recently, and I do get dry mouth when in ketosis, which I had just assumed was normal from all the posts on Reddit. Severe dehydration could certainly screw w chemical/osmotic filtering functions like this.

I texted Mary R and without leading her to my thoughts, she said the same thing. Animal diets will not cause gout or uric acid to rise long term, and it’s likely dehydration, either lack of proper electrolytes/hydration or low ADH (vasopressin) due to hormonal issues.

Anyway, that’s my thinking there. If anyone has any thoughts on that logic I’d be interested.

Onto my second question.

I drank a gallon of water today and used a new fasting salts product I just bought that someone on healing well recommended a while back, either rainy or calmlittleBuddha I think.

It has 5000mg sodium chloride, 2500 potassium chloride and 300 mag citrate.

It’s now 8 hrs later and my mouth is still dry and I keep chugging water. Any ideas why this might be? Shouldn’t the heavy electrolytes + all that water fix the dry mouth? It only happens when I’m in ketosis by the way. Only thing I can think is that the mag citrate gave me loose stools, so maybe I’m losing all the water out the backend? Or Mary Rs suggestion of diabetes insipidus (low
Adh) is right?

Mankinf me nervous because I both want to get my uric acid levels down and know why mu mouth is dry

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 9/23/2021 8:21:36 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/23/2021 9:53 PM (GMT 0)
Drinking too much water can be a problem, too. What's the color of your urine? If you're taking supplemental B-vitamins, this question may be moot, as supplements can affect the color. I'm not a fan of drinking beyond thirst.
Posted 9/23/2021 10:37 PM (GMT 0)
Drinking water does not necessarily hydrate you, especially if you are immediately going to the bathroom

It's about hydrating the cells.

The following link will explain it further. I drink the Ceralyte 50

https://ceraproductsinc.com/
Posted 9/24/2021 1:37 AM (GMT 0)

bbailey423 said...
Drinking water does not necessarily hydrate you, especially if you are immediately going to the bathroom

It's about hydrating the cells.

The following link will explain it further. I drink the Ceralyte 50

https://ceraproductsinc.com/

I didn’t look at the link yet, but yes to this.

Low ADH is one of the CIRS symptoms, often accompanied by normal osmolality. My osmolality was normal to start with but later was low (I think). Excessive thirst and urination are the symptoms. Shoemaker protocol treats this with Desmopressin. I never did this, but I think k07 did for a while. If I remember right, it didn’t fix her excessive thirst and urination.

This has been discussed here before, but I can’t recall what will get the water into the cells. I seem to recall MCAS causing this problem as well. Sorry I’m not more help.

Do the folks at Spero know enough about this sort of thing to offer any suggestions on how to get water absorption and ADH balanced?

Long years ago when I first came here, a bunch of guys were going on and on about a supplement called MegaHydrate. I bought some and tried it. It made me sick as a dog. I think it messed my electrolytes up. I am not very skilled with electrolytes and suffer at times because of my lack of recognition and understanding.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 9/23/2021 7:41:14 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/24/2021 2:12 AM (GMT 0)
I don’t think over hydration is my issue. Urine had been quite clear today given i drank a gallon, but I believe that’s around how much you want to drink esp in ketosis

Agreed re: drinking water not always being hydrating. My understanding w electrolytes is that they grab/hold onto the water you drink. If you’re low, you basically pee out whatever you drink in order to maintain proper electrolyte concentrations. I took a decent and recommended amount of electrolytes and water and was still feeling parched.

But feeling better now, about 14hrs later, maybe just took some time. I’d like to have my ADH tested tho, I probably have some version of CIRS. Will ask Spero

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 9/23/2021 8:18:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/24/2021 11:09 AM (GMT 0)
cant really add much to the above other than i have been eating a strict ketogenic diet for around 2 years now

i currently drink just over 2litres of water/ all liquids per day and don't have any excessive thirst issues - if i sweat a lot through exercise or hot bath i notice i feel like drinking more - but this is the only time.

have been settled at this level for around 12 months now - before that i drank less - more like 1.25 litres per day as was trying to avoid drinking near meal times to aid digestion - i was rarely thirsty then either - but do feel a little better generally when drinking more than that.

so i guess i am just adding that huge amounts of water don't seem to be necessary on keto diets

i think its worth noting that the labs will set normal limits for things like uric acid etc based on a standard deviation approach based on results from 1000 random people ( typically not even a vetted healthy population btw)

i am happy to be proved wrong - but would be very surprised if people eating strict keto with significant animal protein have the same uric acid as those in the random population - which we can safely assume will mostly be eating a standard western diet. i have seen articles stating it either way but i suspect there will be a shift of some sort.

Post Edited (Garzie) : 9/24/2021 5:15:24 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/25/2021 1:20 PM (GMT 0)
dcd,

I was wrong about k07’s experience with desmopressin for low ADH. It helped a lot, but ADH dropped again after taking abx.

See 3rd post here: https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3992335

P.S. - I saw your other post and the mention of diabetes insipidus. I looked that up. The symptoms they describe sounds exactly like what I experienced when my Lyme symptoms first started in 2009. I told the doctors everything. No one ever mentioned diabetes insipidus. They did urine tests. Maybe they didn’t see anything off and dismissed my symptoms. I don’t know if GP/PCP’s know anything about ADH/osmolality. Even my Lyme doctor wasn’t familiar with that, as she doesn’t follow the Shoemaker protocol.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 9/25/2021 7:25:06 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/25/2021 3:09 PM (GMT 0)
Wow, very helpful WBF! Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'm feeling a bit better today after 48 hrs of increased electrolytes/water, but I still suspect my vasopressin is low. I made an appointment for next Wednesday w/ a GP to have it tested. If it's low will look into the desmopressin. Will keep you posted!
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