Could this be Babesia ??? microscopy+ Bart content

i read that there are over 100 species of babesia known today ......!!!

do it - its fascinating stuff

i am going to do a little research and upgrade mine - as the objective i was using for those images was only 4x magnification - which is less than ideal - and i will be able to get better ones with a new 100x lens

if you go the used route you may well get a better instrument for the money and recover pretty much all your outlay when you sell it again - if cash is a concern

if you did find anything - you can do your own testing as often as you want as a way of tracking progress

it looks simple dcd - but interpretation of slides is a complex job

the above has been my very first foray into the subject at a rank amateur level
i have an engineering background so pick things like this up fairly quickly - but there is a lot to learn -
each organism can present in many many ways ( especially Babesia ) and there are also all the artefacts and normal human biology to distinguish - like platelets and reticulocyte staining

anyone who things you can look at a slide and know with certainty what you are sing in 5 minutes is mistaken in all but the most overt cases of infection

this was just a first stab to see if its worth looking any deeper and my conclusion is that it is.
i would need to upgrade my microscope a bit and but the correct reagents to take it further but that would be only £50 or so for a new objective and some methanol, buffered distilled water, pipettes etc

i have now learned both bart and babs can be imaged with giemsa stain - and having found either disease progression/ treatment effectiveness could be tracked using this method

i have just found an amazing 251 page guide by Dr S on how to differentiate babesia from bart and artefacts
will post a link

that makes a lot of sense dcd

this is an amazing resource - perhaps the most comprehensive on the subject in the world - courtesy of Dr S and found for me by BartenderBonnie on the Lymenet forum

https://www.personalconsult.com/free/babesialabguide.pdf

i got to page 181 so far and my head hurts!

bluelyme said...
re : amscopes i have seen ok results with some add ons and effort but depends what kid is making the optics on that day . but the replaced defective items etc

babs id is pretty straight foward and plenty documentation on line .there are some ok 1 step giemsa stains now (3 step seems to have better contrast ) i did buy some college pathology books on microbial protoplasts and l-forms .

i miss the phase contrast nikon i got to borrow for a while, japonese glass was so clear on spirochetes and strings of pearls and medusa nests

thanks Blue lyme - i am going to try to stick with my battered but working Watson microscope for now but try to find a suitable good 100x objective for it - i think some of the Nikon and Olympus lenses may be compatible

the book linked above really is an amazing guide and really shed light on how difficult it can be to diagnose babesia in all but the most stereotypical slides - which with over 100 species in the wild, and typically low rates of infected blood cells in chronic patients - is often a rare presentation

dcd2103 said...
Anyone know a good microscopy forum to ask about the best starter microscope?

did you read Mustard seed's microscopy for beginners thread dcd ?

he/ she? did a really good job of laying out what you need, for whatever it is you want to do, including what features you want - and what scopes would do it

in essence you have the choice of some 40yr old ex lab or university equipment from ebay etc
or a new Amscope or similar

btw all the non big 3 microscopes (Zeiss, Olympus , Leica - which are mega bucks new) on the market are essentially the same thing - they use the same objective lenses mass produced in china - so no need to worry about which brand

be sure to read the last study posted in part 2 of that thread - by Mustard Seed
v interesting - and seems to point to many of the spirochete like objects seen in blood to be natural vesicles or cell membrane fragments or similar - not of microbial origin acc to molecular techniques

yep - seems like its a good fit - similar spec to what i am using - mine is just 40 years old

some complain that the quality of these sub 500usd scopes can be variable - things like alignment of the lenses i think - but you will be able to return for replacement if you get a wrong un - a giemsa stain under oil at 1000x will be an ideal test

with the older lab type like i am using - though the machine was v well made when new - you have things like use and abuse and as i am finding - mould growing inside the objective lenses themselves to deal with.

on balance i think something like the amscope above is probably the best bet

i would go for a 5mp camera if you plan to use one though - as by the time you have zoomed in a 1.3mp will get pretty pixilated

based on the last article mustard seed linked to - i'm not sure darkfield is worth doing

happy to help - looking forward to some images with that setup

i have been doing some more today with my new 100x oil immersion lens - and i have more definition - but its also becoming clear there are a lot of artefacts to be excluded before you can say its babs or bart etc

nope - i need to do more careful work and probably fix a few things in my rig - but at this point - no, don't thinks so

bart could be there - but its smaller and harder to distinguish

i think in all of this microscopy lark - people see something unexpected and immediately assume its babs or bart or Lyme - but actually there is a lot of stuff in normal blood that needs to be ruled out - or even artefacts from staining, non bacterial human biology like Howell-jolly bodies etc etc even stuff stuck on the slide itself etc etc

The Schaller book was very helpful.

Under higher magnification the objects on the outside of the rbc were sharp edged irregular shapes.
Not any obvious babesia shapes and nothing at all seen inside the rbc so far( which would be expected normally to confirm babesia)

As to what exactly. - not sure yet. ….

Need to do more work

I think it was stuff stuck on the outside only dcd.

V hard to tell with the 40x objective. And the shapes also tend to be distorted towards round regardless of actual shape.

When i have some decent images from the 100x i will post them up.

Garzie said...

i think in all of this microscopy lark - people see something unexpected and immediately assume its babs or bart or Lyme - but actually there is a lot of stuff in normal blood that needs to be ruled out - or even artefacts from staining, non bacterial human biology like Howell-jolly bodies etc etc even stuff stuck on the slide itself etc etc

Yea this is how I felt after looking at my blood for a while probably about 50 slides. Theres just to much going on to make a conclusion. I think for spirochetes unless you have a relapsing fever type which are all over the place your guessing. I did by some stain a couple weeks ago yet to try it.