tmj - botox for TMj, TMD, bruxism, or jaw clenching is not enough - need to stop the activity

Dear biteme, maybe you should read the posts carefully before rushing to conclusions.

I live in Melbourne, and I independently researched and bought the Grindcare device in December 2010. It reduced my pain from bruxism 40%-60%, and this was consistently, over many months. The disappointing thing was the manufacturer claimed basically a long term 90% reduction, it wasn't that powerful. But it definitely works, I felt alot better from using it.

MJKhalid, my nightly grind figures generally range from 300-500, so yours are quite low.

Johnboy85, the patient/clinic pack is basically the same thing, the clinic pack just lets doctors upload data from multiple patient's Grindcare devices onto the computer. Where ever you are going to get it from, the most important thing is you get it. So long as bruxism is your problem, this thing ought to work. I have ordered gel pads directly from Denmark, there is also a UK distributor called Prestige Dental.

Gizmogirl don't worry about skeptics and such. We appreciate your support and advice, and there is nothing wrong about promoting a product that works.

Two months ago I was scared that using Grindcare would cause my birthmarks to darken. I stopped using it for 2 months and went on an NTI and meditation. After a month I started getting tinnitus in my left ear. Most of the clenching force is on my left side too. I ruled out basically everything so it may actually be TMJ. So now I am back on Grindcare with an electrode stuck on my left temporalis, surely it will loosen the musculature and relax the joint, then we will know if bruxism is behind the tinnitus.

Gizmogirl,

It does look like you will need to call them. Still it is very encouraging that they are finally getting a foothold into that market and now you have distributors closer to home?

I haven't switched sides actually, I'm still using the electrode on my left side where most of the pressure is. I don't know if it is bruxism causing tinnitus in the left ear because there are no symptoms from my joints.

Still I decided to give Grindcare a shot and unsurprisingly I feel better. I'm still paranoid about it making my birthmark darker though. As effective as it is I don't feel completely comfortable getting "shocked" hundreds of times at night. I'm personally using it as a back up if weaker therapies breakdown.

If other people use it all the time I totally understand, it works fantastic.

Best Wishes

Wow.  So good to hear that you got the bruxism down with managing stress, anxiety, and beneficial bacteria.  I have seen people prevent a passing bout of bruxism turn into a chronic case of TMD, and it always includes managing stress, diet, sleep and exercise.  Now that people are learning about the links between IBD and probiotics, I am not at all surprised to hear that they have an effect on the CNS.  I eat kimchee and yogurt, and more, even though some macrobitotic people said use one or the other probiotic, not both.  I figure more is better, and once I stopped bruxing, the spastic colon calmed down.  I credit probiotics with keeping the spastic colon from turning into IBD.  I do miss the watermelon rind pickles my next door neighbor used to make, so crunchy and sweet, but she moved away when I was too dumb and young to ask her recipe.

This is so gross, but I just recently read about fecal transplants, believe it or not!  And why don't they at least make it sound less gross, by calling it maybe, beneficial bacteria transplants?  Elderly patients who would die for lack of enough beneficial bacteria are being saved.  Too weird.  I also read that between 5 and 10 pounds of an adult's weight is actually not us at all, but rather microscopic flora.  There are 10 times as many microbes in our digestive system as there are human cells in the entire human body!!

I'm doing better and better, the longer I go without bruxing my wrecked TMjoints.  It must have taken me more than a year before I dared to turn off the stim option,  that stops the bruxing during sleep, even for a night!   Now I just occasionally monitor with EMG if I think I am starting to brux again as a response to chronic pain.   My dentist bruxes, and says he's buying a unit - he just loved when I showed him the stim on his forearm.  I'll set it up for stim on my or someone else's forearm, just to show them how adjustable the CES stim is.   I wish dentists would never botox temporalis muscles, since it doesn't help anyways, and just leaves you like me, trying to find some sensory nerves that can still notice even level 9.

When you say that your birthmark reacted, that's to the CES stimulation, right?  Not the EMG monitoring, since that just reads muscle contractions.  I still can't imagine the biology of reaction to CES stimulation.  Anyhow, I sure am still jealous of you...seriously, I would endure just about anything to be more sensitive (got too much local nerve damage).  But hey, Grindcare stopped me drugging myself semi-conscious, and gave me a huge chunk of my life back.

Well, good to hear from you.  You are one more person who beat bruxism, before it ruined their quality of life.  I am so impressed that you got right on it, and figured out what to do.  Thank you for pointing out the importance of digestive beneficial flora to TMD, it makes sense, and I hadn't put together the studies that show it, until you got me thinking.  

well, you can stop bruxism (clenching OR grinding), now that there is non-invasive EMG with CES. Google Grindcare, or google TMD EMG CES. Just make sure you get an effective diagnosis, before you start treatments, and not let anyone make assumptions. You should rent from a dentist before you invest in the many, many, many, other TMD treatments. Many doctors still use incorrect terms like TMJ - as nonsensical as calling a headache a "skull" just because it's in your head. TMJ is just the name of one of the two temoral mandibular jaw joints, that we all have. Other doctors or therapists may try to grandfather in TMJ internet posts, by calling TMD "TMJD". Anyways, if you have TMD, EMG is the most effective diagnostic, and CES interrupts bruxing, stopping disordered sleep. The EMG will also spit out graphs of how effectively any treatment is stoping bruxism. It's only recently become both straightforward and accurate to diagnose or rule out TMD, and to stop it. Most pain involving TMJoints is from bruxing.

If you read my sorry long story of this thread, I hope it convinces you to avoid invasive, expensive treatments, before you have an ironclad diagnosis. It's no longer necessary to waste years, or houses worth of $$ anymore, like I had to do. You will find too many dentists and doctors still willing to give you Botox, splints, MRI's, topos, deviation studies, arthroscopic surgery, etc., BEFORE you get an effective diagnostis. Many doctors and dentists just aren't up on the latest on TMD, and many are heavily invested in diagnostics and treatments that don't include EMG and CES. Btw, google symptoms of Temporal Mandibular Disorder. You can trust the symptom list of, for example, the Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic at least points out that although they will replace your TMjoint with partial or complete titanium, it doesn't often relieve pain. Your blue gums stumps me. I used to chew my tongue and inside of my cheek to raw hamburger, and then wake up with a start the next night as I continued chomping. I have the most damaged, locking, dislocating, ugly TMJoints imaginable, nerve damage, hearing loss, and a lot more, but I'm no longer disabled by pain, because I'm no longer a chronic bruxer. Life is good again.

So, at least there is now effective diagnostics (EMG) and treatments (CES) for TMD. Back surgery almost got as out of control awhile back, as TMD treatments have become... when MRI's first became popular: half the adult backs, if MRI'd, show deformites or stenosis, or arthritis, or disc degeneration, or pressure on sciatic or other nerves, or other problems - enough to justify surgery if the patient is complaining of back pain. The problem is that fully HALF with truly ugly back MRI's will never ever experience pain, nor lack of function, despite their ugly MRI's!!!!! So treating these people invasively could cause new problems. Most back doctors and surgeons are aware of this now. So unnecessary, risky back surgery is less frequent nowadays. The problem is that the various MRI's and topos, and deviation studies, etc. on Temporal Mandibular Joints can be just as misleading, if you don't have convenient EMG studies, to diagnose or rule out TMD. The diagnosis and treatment of TMJ disorders just aren't as well documented yet - there's still a lot of bad advice on the Web, and therapists, doctors, and dentists who don't even know what Grindcare is.

Diagnosing by treatment is actually necessary for some disorders, like trying out different migraine prevention drugs with a neurologist - when you find one that works, it confirms the diagnosis of migraine. TMD (chronic bruxism) used to be just like migraine, until very recently. Most dentists and doctors still try their preferred diagnostics and treatments out, you pay, mostly out of pocket, and you just hope to get lucky. But it doesn't have to be this way any more. The most effective, accepted diagnostic for TMD is EMG, like Grindcare's, and not many dentists in the USA even know yet about this FDA approved, NIH tested product. Also, there is no excuse for dentists to be doing restorations, orthodontia, or botox BEFORE an effective diagnosis (or ruling out) of TMD, FIRST. You want to treat only problems that actually cause symptoms. I know this sounds comically self evident, but if you check out a few internet TMJD sites, you'd think Botox for bruxism is FDA approved, or similar insanity, and it'll drive you nuts or broke pretty easily.

We all brux many times, episodically, during out lives. It's when it becomes chronic and damaging that it is worth using EMG, and if necessary, CES, to stop it. You can prevent a case of episodic bruxing from progressing to TMD sometimes. You need to do sufficient exercise, relaxation, sleep, weight control, sometimes a very short course of soft diet and/or inflammatories, etc. But TMD needs diagnosing and treatment, because willpower won't help the slightest bit on a chronic, subconscious, neuromuscular disorder like TMD. Many dentists and doctors still tell TMD patients to de-stress, which pretty much guarantees it will only get worse. And, occasionally, a malocclusion or apnea can kick off TMD, but never assume, anymore, now that you can use EMG and CES to know, for sure, what you need to deal with, and what would be a waste of time/$$.

about the only "treatment as diagnostic" I would still consider is a few nights of bedtime muscle relaxants under a doctor's monitoring. Muscle relaxants aren't accurate like EMG. Muscle relaxants are also dangerous for anyone with apnea . If a couple of nights with muscle relaxants make you feel like a whole new person, it might help motivate you to get to a dentist who rents EMG with CES, like Grindcare's. Another problem with muscle relaxants is that they work only temporarily, can mix badly with other conditions or meds, and your body habituates to them. Same concern with an inexpensive but custom teethguard - it could protect your teeth and dental work if you have TMD, but not your joints, so get to the source problem first, or at least rule TMD out. Most thin, inexpensive, custom mouthguards shouldn't be falling out and shouldn't be noticeable enough to make you try to dislodge it in your sleep, let alone gag on it. Some people react to anti-depressants of the serotonin re-uptake inhibitor type by bruxing, so if you need an anti-depressant, and you have a documented diagnosis of TMD, you can later try tapering off serotonin-affecting anti-depressants, and tapering onto a cheaper older style anti-depressant like amitryptiline. Do this only under a doctor's monitoring, because tapering can be bad for you unless your doctor is checking for side effects, etc.

After severe dislocations of my jaw in car accidents, or weeks of bruxing before I knew how to stop it, I felt like I was broken and dying. The nerve damage, headaches, earaches, hearing problems, and muscle spasms were overwhelming, especially with spastic colon from the pain. Pain centers and neurologists decided I had pain of unknown origin, and let me drug myself to a stupor daily, which again was just palliative. My ears and sinuses hurt, and were so inflammed that I got surgeries, but nothing helped more than briefly...until I got an EMG unit on my own, spit out the AM charts, and showed that I was a massive clencher, hundreds of times a night, with hundreds of times as much force (and wear) as from eating. Showed my docs the same EMG monitoring after a few weeks of CES, and blew their minds, since I now brux only a few times a night. I don't even use it nightly any more. My doctors stop treating me like a hypochondriac, too. Suddenly they all wanted info and demos of Grindcare, so they can reccommend EMG like Grindcare, to anyone they care about, who might be a chronic bruxer (TMD).

So, don't give up. This is the first year that Grindcare is in the USA (I bought mine in England), and the double blind studies have been done for you to check out. For the first time, there is effective diagnosis and treatment for chronic bruxism, the size and almost as easy as an ipod. Don't give up now that it's a diagnosable, treatable, less expensive problem! Good luck

hi apollo66,

you must have more experience than me with grindcare, and I thought whichever dentist gave it to you is supposed to make sure you are getting good contacts and readings?  I never considered how one would start a new grindcare forum.  In the USA, you are supposed to get it only with a prescription from a doctor or dentist, which I think they want you to do so you will get whatever support questions answered.  Don't know how you buy in the UK nowadays. Do you have the version that you can upload to your PC in the AM, to get line charts on how much grinding you did each night, to see trends?

I like that the new package seems to keep the gel from drying out, but didn't really notice any difference in the gel pads themselves.  However, who knows what version I am using.  I cannot imagine how having an open bite would affect the motion of your temporalis muscle, up over your temple, which is what the EMG is reading.  Since this muscle contracts along with your masseters to clench or grind, it is the most convenient place to get an EMG reading from.

What do you mean that it's difficult to calibrate the machine?  Do you mean the nightly calibration to just make sure you set the CES stimulation to a level that is high enough?  Or are you talking about the calibration that few people will ever do, to change the sensitivity of your electrode?

If you are talking about the nightly calibration, what kind of trouble are you having?  I found that if I wipe my temple with alcohol, so there are no skin oils to interfere with the EMG reading, and moisten the 3 gel spots slightly, I get a better contact, and avoid getting no data in the AM.  But most people I have talked with don't have to do these two extra tricks.  Are you sure that you are placing the EMG electrode over your temporarlis?  To double check, ignore Grindcare, and just place the pads of a couple of fingers on your temple.  Now clench or grind.  You should feel the temporalis muscle tighten, when you brux.  Like a teensy biceps muscle flexing.  Now that you know where the temporarlis is, you can be sure to put the gel pad over the temporalis.

Are you having any problem with doing the test CES stim at night?  If you can't feel anything with the CES stim level turned all the way up, you probably aren't sticking the EMG electrode on the remporalis (or have botoxed it to death, which I did - I've a workaround for that, too).  Still have your instruction leaflet?

wow, I'd be bummed, if I had to wear an orthotic, just to get Grindcare to work!  Many dentists still incorrectly think that malocclusion is the biggest cause of TMD bruxism.  It is true that for a very few people, malocclusion can push a passing case of bruxism over to chronic TMD.  But so can injuries, etc.  Even so, it seems to me that bruxism is bruxism, is bruxism.  If you are bruxing enough to cause pain and inflammation, Grindcare should be able to diagnose it (EMG) and to stop it (biofeedback).  The EMG reads the clenching of brusism muscles, and the temporalis is reliable for EMG.  When you used Grindcare in baseline monitoring only mode, for diagnosing, did you consistently get numbers of clenches per night, enough to know that bruxism is your diagnosis?  And did your numbers of bruxes per night start going down when you turned on the biofeedback mode?  It is the non-invasive way to stop bruxing, and I can't quite understand why you could need an orthotic, if it stops your bruxing, open bite or no.

1. You said "even a really firm bite sometimes the unit would be going off oin some movemenets other thasn clenches( this is tryign the pad in many different positions)". 

I don't get you here.  First, can you feel the biofeedback, before calibration?  This means you have a good EMG connection.  I pick a biofeedback number, then I don't say ok right away, I select a different level to try, and this way I can check I have a good contact a few times, before saying ok, and then I go on to nightly calibration. 

2. I never have had a problem with the gelpads not being sticky enough, so long as I stick it to a flat, cleaned, and dry area. One thing thing that sometimes drives me nuts is how you can't reposition the sticky gel pad many times, if at all.  So if I place it badly, sometimes I have to use another, and they are so expensive!  You're not re-positioning the electrode pad multiple times a night, are you?  Find the clenching temporalis with your index finger, so you know where to slap the sticky electrode pad.  btw, if you have ever seen a tech trying to use the old fashioned messy gel plus tape, to get a good contact for even a single electrode, you know how clever Grindcare's triple electrode gel pads are, in comparison. No wonder that in the bad old days, it was hard to get EMG anywhere but in hospitals, before someone invented these disposable sticky gel pads.  I tried paper tape (for sensitive skin), too, and like you, it only worked if I taped only the tips down.  But now that I make sure I stick to only clean, dry, flat skin, I don't need tape, because I almost never tear it off in my sleep any more.

3. During the bruxing calibration, are you making sure to do clenching and grinding that uses at least 60% of your masseter muscle force?  I know for sure that if you don't brux hard enough, in those few seconds of calibration, your EMG won't "know" your brux, and it could cause the problem you described.  You only get a few seconds to give the EMG a sample grind, so I try a strong clench or two, segueing to grinding around a bit.

4.  If my skin is not completely dry, the sticky pad won't keep all three electrodes in good contact with my skin.  I make sure that even if I have used alcohol to remove skin oils, I let my skin dry completely. Gotta get that good contact.  One dentist had me try it on his forearm, but he not only had a hairy arm, but had put on moisturizing lotion that morning, and I never got a good contact.  When I had him clean the hair free skin, on the other side, and tried a muscle there, it was easy, and he thought that tingle was the best thing since sliced bread.

5. If I have dampened the gel dots, I am careful to never ever let moisture spread, past the gel, to the band-aid sticky parts, since that can blow your connection, too.  Like with band aids, you can't expect it to cling very well if you dampen the sticky part first.  Supposedly placement is all that matters for almost everyone, and it's not necessary to moisten the gel dots.  But I thought I would mention it because you spoke about repositioning, which could be problematic.  And you have to make sure that you pull off the shorter cover plastic first, so that you place the proper side on your electrodes, and the proper side on your skin.

6. I also make sure that I place the triple electrode pad on the flattest part of my temple.  The reason for this is that if I try to stick it over a curving part, the edges will loosen in the night.  Since I even Botox'd my temporalis (Botox is bad for bruxers, btw), I have a lot of atrophy and curving - so for me it's unusually hard to find a flat area of the temporalis.  I have to place it closer to my eyebrows than to my hairline, but that's me, probably a weird, very rare, case.  Kind of like, don't put a teeny band aid over the top of your knuckle and expect it to stay on very long.  I also make sure I place it on the temple of the side I sleep on least often, because I have yanked the thing off a couple of times.  Usually when my hair gets in my way in my sleep, and I must be just stabbbing blindly at pushing my hair back, or whatever. 

7. During your nightly calibration, are you being sure to truly relax for those few seconds of calibration, where you're supposed to show the EMG what relaxed looks like, for you?  During the relaxed calibration, I make sure to keep the tip of my tongue on the roof of my mouth, just behind my front teeth, to make sure that I can not clench inadverdently during this calibration.  I think you already covered this, but it goes with step 2 above, so that the EMG only reacts to what you want it to react to.  Sorry I didn't think of this until number 7, but hey, I'm not a grindcare expert. 

8. Thinking about where I quoted you in step 1. above, if you are calibrating relaxed, and then bruxing, without error messages, how is it that you know that you are getting excess CES biofeedback?  And how do you know it's biofeedbacking even when you are not bruxing?  Have you worn the unit while awake, or what?  I'm just not sure I know enough to ask all the possible questions well, so I'm groping here.

9. This could really screw up your biofeedback: have you increased the sensitivity of the unit?  In the grinddock's configuration settings screen, the one with the wrench icon, one of the choices is to set sensitivity. The higher the number, the harder you have to brux before the unit notices.  I can't remember what the factory default setting is.  But I set mine to be sensitive to any clenching at all, setting mine at 15.  For you, when you've done everything else right, I think maybe try setting your sensitivity, to require more forceful movement before the electrodes register (setting your number closer to 99 than to 1).  Might be worth trying. This is kind of goes with steps 1, 2, and 7, because it decides when you want the EMG to react, or not to react.  It seems logical that you need a valid calibration of relaxed, of clenching, and an appropriate sensitivity; all three.  (Let alone a contact of all 3 electrodes with your skin over the temporalis).  

7. Have you ruled out apnea?  One of the few conditions that causes jawing around, like gasping, for example, is apnea.  Have to mention it, since it could harm you before bruxism does, I bet.  One can use Grindcare with an apnea machine, so I don't think apnea causes over-firing of biofeedback.

Wow, when I look at what I just wrote, it sure makes it seem more complicated than it really is.  It takes me longer to brush my teeth, than to use Grindcare.

I have a question for myself, that maybe you can help me with.  Have you ever set your biofeedback level too high?  I wish I could tell you that I have experienced this problem.  But after botoxing everything, more than once, I can't get my biofeedback strong enough!!!  Can you believe it?  So much atrophy and damage that I don't have enough sensory nerves, I think!  If I stick the electrode on my arm, or somebody else's arm, or wherever, a biofeedback level of 4 is perfectly noticeable, at least if I'm awake.  But I have so little sensation around my temple, that even setting mine to nine, I barely notice the biofeedback sometimes!  I want to tell those wonderful people in Denmark that I need the Spinal Tap level (like when he said he could turn the volume up all the way to eleven, ha ha).

 

Is Grindcare available in Canada? What did you pay for yours?
Suzane

Well GIZMOGIRL its been a year and thankfully both of us have become wiser and more effective in dealing with our bruxism.

To the nurse going through hell, I recommend you get yourself a Grindcare unit ASAP. I'm paranoid about electrical stimulation releasing VEGF making my birthmark darker, so i keep my unit locked away. It is for emergencies, and it works every time for me.

When I was on Grindcare I tried so hard to wean myself off, learning all the tricks to stop grinding. In my experience the key is to be at peace, an empty mind. That is why often benzodiazepines help. Still they are only a short term solution.

There are papers out there describing the calming GABAergic effects of yoghurt and green tea, I consume both along with meditation and my bruxism is under control though still too high for my liking.


To any bruxism sufferer, definitely buy yourself a Grindcare device, but after that you need to work on the underlying problems

hi TMJpain,

There is a website you can google "Grindcare USA" and it has some kind of a news release of a testimonial from some guy who used Grindcare in Vancouver, Canada, and I think I saw a study from Montreal.   So they are probably rolling out this product out in Canada, not just the USA.  Do Canadians get to use the UK? Can a Canadian buy it from anyone in the UK?  I know that I once tried and failed to use a UK website from the USA, to buy, before it was approved by the USA FDA.  But it's probably still not a convenient Amazon.com item, because it is prescription only in the USA, compliments of our FDA.

Hey Formvital,

I have read about and incorporated most of the things you have mentioned, like the beneficial gut flora, and gaba-ergic and nutritional foods can only help.  And I know that if human beings don't work up a sweat daily, they are going to have un-resolved fight-or-flight responses, that just add up.  I don't understand how CES biofeedback can affect anything but sensory nerves, but then again, at least I know that there is a lot that I don't understand in this world.  Especially chronic pain and mortality, grrrr.  Or willfully ignorant policy makers, for a whole other enchilada.  At least I can say it'is good to be alive, and I am glad to hear that you are doing more than one thing, for your health.  That's what pays off over the long haul, right.

At one point, I was ready to quit posting, getting only flak from dentists who diagnose and treat TMD with unproven, lucrative procedures. Or maybe it was the false rumors that Grindcare might disrupt sleep, when it does the opposite.  But then came your posts, sensible and concise, which I appreciated, when the trolls were tramping around.  Glad to hear you are well.  Don't want to tell you how often I skip using Grindcare completely now, because I don't want to jinx how well it's worked for me, haha!  Be well!

Hey gizmo Girl,

Sorry another quick question you may be able to help with as a Grindcare user ! Have you sued the grindcare since they supplied the old gel pads in the black card to the more recent pads in foil packets. If so have you noticed any difference ? For me the new foil pack gel pads have a differencet sensation when i do my test feedback when setting up and they are recoreding a consistenyl higher number of grinds( and genreally I am not feeling so go in the morning).

Have you tried using the pads on the other temple( left and right side) have you seen any difference in that.

Also where exactly do you poistion the pads so they are not falling off ? I have tried a few positions but they stills seem to fall off ,but I wantr to stop using tape if i can as that for whwatever reason seems to affect the way the unit works for me.



thanks

Apollo66

Hey, great idea to start a thread for those using electrolmylography sleep studies to diagnose and stop TMD.  Will go there next.

Sorry, I buy my gel pad so far in advance and in bulk that I am no where near to using the new ones.  I use plenty of expired ones, too. But I can guarantee that I will absolutely love them and think that they are better, if they have better conductivity, which your post seems to indicate, by saying that they record a consistently higher number of grinds.  And having a better connection might increase the sensitivity of the EMG, as well as the biofeedback CES, so it would feel different.  I am assuming here that what matters is that you get a consistent biofeedback, that you can calibrate yourself.

I can think of 2 reasons why more sensitive conductivity gel would be good:

Those of us with enough sensory nerve damage to the temporarlis, need to have the most possible conductivity, to get good readings of the temporalis muscle contraction, to measure the all important masseter clench.  Those of us who got suckered into doing untested, unapproved Botox of the temporarlis as well as the masseter (meaning no recourse, either) have a hard time reading the atrophied clenches.  Also those who have sensory nerve damage from TMJoint area sensory damage and chronic inlammation, which I am guessing takes decades to produce, but I am certainly in that group.

As for you not feeling so good after a night with many grinds recorded, apollo66, maybe you are either feeling the effects of a night of a lot of actual TMD, or have set your sensitivity too high for the new gel pads, along with biofeedback much higher than needed to interrupt TMD.  I cannot see any way that the unit itself would cause a worse night's sleep, unless you calibrated the biofeedback to be way stronger than necessary.  Are you sure you use at least 60% of your clench power, during calibration, to keep it from kicking off too easily, as the manual reccommends?  Also, you can addtionally calibrate the Grindcare unit for sensitivity in general, under the settings menu.  When calibrated before bed, to a level that won't interfere with sleep, that will only stop TMD, you are only reading clenches with EMG, or producing CES biofeedback to stop TMD. Period.  So getting your connection and calibration are key to stopping TMD, so I would spend the time to fool around with it...otherwise you might not get the stunning results that other users have been claiming (and me, too).

I did an elaborate test with my hubby after I first started using Grindcare, because it seemed too good to be true.  A test that you might want to consider, after rejiggering nad rechecking your sensitivity and calibration settings.  I would NOT note down my number of grinds in the AM, instead asking hubby to keep a log.  If I had a miserable day, I would ask him if I had more than a few episodes of TMD recorded the night before.  Inevitably, the numbers backed my pain levels.  Kinda like my own double blind to avoid any possibility of placebo - I know on one level that what I did makes no sense.  But if you have spent a house worth on every contested treatment for TMD/TMJD, with never better than temporary results, you tend to be very suspicious of anything that actually works, like Grindcare.

I do have a suggestion for disposable sticky gel pads that fall off.  I use a couple of drops of alcohol to clean the skin of my temple before slapping on a pad.  I am not aware of this being in the user manual.  When I demo my unit to dentists who brux, I usually just use an arm muscle to slap the pad on, so I can then let them choose and change biofeedback levels, to let them see the huge range of biofeedback for personal calibration.  I had one female dental assistant, with absolutely no arm hair, with whom I could get no connection!  Turns out she had slpashed on some kind of body spash (cologne?) after AM shower.  And although I have practically fatally dry old skin, even I had trouble getting a good connection, at first.  So, I just swipe the skin with a bit of paper dampened with alcohol, and never have that problem anymore. There are even single-use packs of pre-dampened wipes at Walgreens, that my mom bought once and never used, so I just use one of them (expired many years ago, but it's foil sealed alcohol wipe, so expiration is meaningless).  Anyhow, it IS in the user manual to make sure that you slap the lead onto clean, dry skin.  And since the electrical impulses in muscles are very tiny, that Grindcare wants to read, I can certainly believe that by clean, dry skin, that they really mean exactly that.  Even if I use hair conditioner in a shower, a bit gets on your skin when you rinse off, so that's why I just add the 4 second routine of swiping the skin before slapping the lead.

If you have wiped your temple area clean with a bit of alcohol-dampened paper, let it dry, and still can't get the pad to stick to your skin, then I would consider asking your supplier if you have received a bad batch.  But I have never had a problem if my skin is cleaned by alcohol and dry before slapping on a lead, even if I use disposable pads so expired that I have to moisten the gel dots to get any conductivity going.  So I would consider the possibility of a bad batch AFTER trying the alcohol wipe.

As for using the lead on which temporalis, I have tried switching a few times.  I sleep more often on my left side for some reason, and found that if I slap the lead onto the left temple, I disconnect it sometimes in my sleep.  I think I must be trying to jam my hair off my face in my sleep, which irritates most on the side you are sleeping on.  This would sometimes yank the whole thing off.  So I tend to place the lead on my right temple.  But you can tell that either side of the temporalis will work by just placing the pads of a few fingers on one temple after the other, while clenching the masseters.

Good luck with the new pads.  Will check your new thread now. 

Hi Guys,

Having read your replies particularly Formvital about finding Grindcare didnt seem to work as well reusing old pads , I realised that the problem with the new pads - the sensation when i set it up , and the poorer results is most probably just down to the poor adhesion of the pads. Like formvital I found I could sometimes get the old pads to stick on again for a 2 nd night or if I had to reposition them, but the adhesion wasnt quite as good, and firstly the sensation felt different and 2nd the unit just didnt work as well.

I understand there has been a change in the suppliers of the pads and hence they have changed the adhesion compound used on the gel pads, which I personally find is not nearly as good as the old pads adhesion . and also not as good in how well it works. So I am really keen to hear from other people who are using the newer pads or to hear what batch pads you are using.

Hey Gizmogirl,

I am working with the company that makes it to sort out the problems which are down to a current batch of gel pads I have. Grincdare is without doubt the best thing out there right now and has changed my quality of life a lot in 3 years , however i agree with Formvital and a few other posts ive seen that its not as simple to use for some people(down to skin type, bite problems etc). Im glad it works so easily l for you , sorry about the botox ,but really good you're letting other know . (I myself actually had an appointment with a top botox surgeon in the UK and was so close to getting it done!).

The difference is with the version i have you cant adjust the sensitivity , it requires the company who make using some software to change the setting.

Just a quick question do you know the gel pads you are using currently . The batch number is on the corner of the pack (black card or foil) and something like 114001,114301,114701...they are constatntly developing and making changes to the pad(with the aim to imrpove them) .

Wishing you a Happy & Heathy New Year !