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Spinal Taps v.s. MRI

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Posted 2/4/2007 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
Is it possible to have a "normal" MRI scan and have a possitive spinal ?

Just wondering about the stats on this. And also if you have had seizures do they aways show up on EEG's ? Thanks.

Posted 2/4/2007 8:53 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Auggie -

I can't answer the first question, since I had a positive MRI and a normal spinal, so I could imagine yes you probably could, but I can answer the 2nd question on the EEG's. A seizure only shows up on an EEG IF you are having one at the time of the EEG.

I was sent to get a baseline EEG at the beginning of treatments to find out the source of my tremors. I guess my eeg showed some sort of 'shadows' so my neuro thought I was having some very minor tremors that could be seizure related at the time of the EEG and put me on Topamax until we figure out the rest of the stuff going on. But I do know if there is any type of goofy activity going on at all with the brain at the time of the eeg, it does show up on the eeg. The eeg tech will try to make you go into a seizure, by trying to make you hyperventilate and stuff like that, but mine was basically very normal except for a few shadows. And now I'm doomed to Topamax until until they figure out what is going on with me.

Good Luck. I'm sure others will be able to explain the first question much better than I did, since there is much more experience here than I have.
Posted 2/4/2007 9:14 PM (GMT 0)
Dendra,What if they can not get you to do anything during the eeg ? Feb 12 I am having major surgry and after I heal the nuro wants me to get a spinal. Uppity-cats said that if you are in the begining ms stages that it may not show up on the MRI's.
I have had seizures, all three were different, not sure what kind they are or were.
The nuro said to come in "tired" hoping that I fall asleep to get a better reading on the eeg. I have not had any seizures since I was very young, fever related back then. Thanks for the imfo.
One more thing I read that one post Shellypoo wrote about the differences with brain and spine so maybe you could have different reads between mri's and eeg's.
Posted 2/4/2007 9:41 PM (GMT 0)
If they get nothing on the eeg, they call it normal. You may be having a different type of eeg than I did. Is it a sleep deprived eeg? Are you supposed to stay up all night before? I was told NOT to fall asleep in mine.

My neuro did mention that she wanted to do a sleep deprived eeg on me in March, but now that things are being more focused on the MS side, I think that has been put to the waste side and she wants to see what the new Neuro says. So who knows? :o)

I don't know if I'm reading your last sentence wrong, my brain is a little foggy today, so please forgive me if I'm not understanding it right. The difference between the MRI and EEG is that the MRI takes a 3D picture of your brain & spine for any physical problems and the EEG measures the brain wave activity during certain tests, bright lights, strobes, breathing exercises, etc; no pictures, just lines that measure what is and is not in normal range.

Hope this helps some. Good Luck!
Posted 2/4/2007 10:12 PM (GMT 0)

AUGGIE said...
Is it possible to have a "normal" MRI scan and have a possitive spinal ?

Just wondering about the stats on this. And also if you have had seizures do they aways show up on EEG's ? Thanks.

Neither an MRI or a spinal tap are a conclusive test for MS.  They're used to determine all kinds of other disorders...one of which might be MS.

If you have a "positive" spinal tap -- you'd need to be more specifically what you're "positive" for. If there are o-bands, then maybe MS.  If there are elevated levels of other proteins, then possibly MS, but maybe some infection somewhere in the central nervous system.

MRI's are like "pictures" of your brain -- and can be interpreted differently, depending on the experience of the doctor, the clarity of the MRI, how progressed the disease is. Sometimes in very early stages of MS, the lesions don't appear. And sometimes they're there, but a doctor misses them.

As Rhonda said, seizures will only show up on an EEG if you have a seizure while hooked up to an eeg machine.  There are some portable ones that people "wear", if there is some suspicion that perhaps they're having minor seizures.

That's why a doctor needs more than just a "positive MRI", or "positive spinal tap" to make his diagnosis of MS. He needs at least one of those, and then clinical signs -- things that can be tested for and demonstrated and are quantitatively measureable (not things you "experience", or "feel"), and some specific signs that are "MS-like" -- balance issues, weakness in a limb, that sort of thing.

While some folks with MS do experience seizures, seizures are not one of the more common signs of MS.

Posted 2/10/2007 4:45 AM (GMT 0)
Do they normal do a spinal tap?

Posted 2/10/2007 1:47 PM (GMT 0)

chelly said...
Do they normal do a spinal tap?

No, doctors won't normally order a spinal tap, as it's a very invasive and sometimes painful procedure.  But if other signs are "mixed" -- the patient has some clinical signs (objective, testable, demonstrable signs, not subjective symptoms) but other tests are coming back negative,

meaning the doctor doesn't know what is affecting the patient, then he might order a spinal tap, which will it isn't a specific test for MS, CAN show lots of other disease mechanisms in the body, that might cause those signs.

You said in another thread that you have fibro - -which has some definite specific tests that can be run to determine that, and specific pressure points, where..if the doctor presses on those points, you experience pain. That sort of thing doesn't occur in MS, usually.   If you're uncomfortable with that diagnosis of fibro, you should go back to the doctor, report your new or increased symptoms, and ask for further testing.


 

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