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does Vegetarian Diet help Porstate Cancer

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Posted 9/25/2009 4:58 PM (GMT 0)
Hello everyone,

By reading all your story, status, etc.. I　ｓａｗ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｐｅｏｐｌｅ　ｍｅｎｔｉｏｎｅｄ　Vegetarian Diet　ｂｅｆｏｒｅ　ｏｒ　ａｆｔｅｒ　ｓｕｒｇｅｒｙ　ｃｏｕｌｄ　ｌｏｗｅｒ　ｔｈｅ　ＰＳＡ. It that true? Does Vegetarian Diet help Porstate Cancer? If the answer is yes, I would start the diet for my husband tonight. I know there are a lot of info. out there, please give me some info links or books you know of. Also, do you think a cancer patient should have verity of nutrition include animal acids?

Greatly thanks!
Posted 9/25/2009 5:32 PM (GMT 0)
yes, OhioState

I got your email and replied to you after I saw it. my be it is in your junk mail folder?

thanks!
Posted 9/25/2009 5:54 PM (GMT 0)
For information on diet, try googling "crazy sexy cancer". Results will lead you to the cancer situation a young 31 year old woman is dealing with. She has stage 4 cancer in both her lungs and liver. (There is no stage 5.)

I got a macerator juicer, and am juicing daily with all sorts of alkaline vegetables and fruits. Time will tell if this stops Big C in its tracks or not. Sure can't hurt!

All the best.
Roger
Posted 9/25/2009 6:11 PM (GMT 0)
great!

I am getting there.


thanks!
Posted 9/25/2009 6:50 PM (GMT 0)
It certainly seems to be the case that in oriental countries they have both low PC rates and they eat more vegetables and less red meat.

Other evidence suggests that a heart healthy diet, such as the Mediterranean diet helps prevent PC. Most often implicated is animal fat. The one thing that is not clear is the relative "goodness" of various healthy diets. That is is totally vegan better than Mediterranean and if so, by how much. My point here is people who are not ready to make big dietary changes are still likely to benefit from lesser ones.
Posted 9/25/2009 7:36 PM (GMT 0)
As far as I know, you're suppose to limit your consumption of red meat. Lycopene and tomoto products have not been proven to be benefical for prevention.
Posted 9/25/2009 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
got it!

I will call you tonight or weekend. which time is good with you?
Posted 9/25/2009 8:49 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks.

I am at work not, I don't have my own corner office LOL.

will call you around 8am after I put my daughter to bed.

Thanks!
Posted 9/25/2009 9:08 PM (GMT 0)
Ohio,

If cancer feeds on sugar, I really am screwed! I don't smoke, don't drink at all, eat limited red meats, almost never eat fried foods, but I am a sugar junky, one of my few remaining joys, mostly in the form of chocoalte, but will indulge in anything sweet lying about if hard up.

Why sugar in particular?

My uro/surgeon and gp feel that the dietary changes are like worrying about the horse after it is out of the barn, but I haven't asked my radiation oncologist about it, so that will be a good question for her.

David
Posted 9/25/2009 9:33 PM (GMT 0)
Ohio,

Can you point me or link me to anything valid on the sugar issue? Really want to know. Hate to lose my last eating pleasure. My wife as a nurse sees people on the suprapubic caths for years and years at a time, and not just the elderly. She said it was their policy and that of DHEC to change in-dwelling catheters once a month just in case of infections. My dr. intends for this one that will be installed next week for the duration. He did say it would be large diameter to ensure full and easy drainage.

BTW, your September number looks fantasitc.

David
Posted 9/25/2009 9:45 PM (GMT 0)
David,
Go to the PCRI website. Click on papers and go to Nutrition. There is a paper by Dr Scholz on how sugar and insulin affect PC cell growth. Most oncologists recommend a low or no meat and sugar diet for patients.
JT
Posted 9/25/2009 10:29 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the info, Ohio and JohnT, will research this issue, as it directly effects me. As a side note, my blood sugar is always excellent, not even remotely diabetic, though my 95 lbs mother is. Never have chorlesteral issues either, and when I had my last EKG done about 6 weeks ago, the doctor said it looked like the heart of a young man. Made me feel good. Worse single health problem is being a cancer magnet. And its odd, as cancer doesn't run in our family on either side. My uneducated guess, it was all the exposure I had to highly carcenegenic and toxic liquids when I was in my early 20's. Espcially my 3 bouts of porocarcinoma. In 2000, I was one of only 38 known cases in American Medical History to have that verified ,and less than 300 cases in the world. Of the 3 rad. oncologist I spoke with, only one knew what it was. The American Cancer Society doesn't list it. There has to be a root cause to it somewhere.

Ohio, I told my wife recently, that the emergency dialation procedure I had 5-6 weeks ago in my doctor's office is now in first place for the most pain and the longest pain I had ever experienced in my life. There was no pain meds nor any form of sedation. The doctor was shocked to find 100% blockage from scarring again. Two nurse were holding my legs still to keep them from shaking so much, and the doctor was scrambling without having all the right equip handy to secure an opening to get a cath back into me. On the last and largest dialation rod he tried to insert, it got stuck, couldnt go in, couldnt go out. I was white in pain, a true "10" on the pain scale the entire time it took more than 30 minutes. You always imagine you could pass out from pain, wasnt the case. I only started breathing again, when the doctor said, we got it, we got the catheter in. That event replaced the former number one of pain, when I had a spinal tap go all wrong, it was terrible, but it only lasted a minute at the most.

So when POW's spill the beans under torture, as many do, I am starting to understand now, lol.

Best to you guys, and thanks for the info
Posted 9/25/2009 10:46 PM (GMT 0)
If I may chime in here, I changed to a vegetarian diet at the beginning of June. The decision was largely based on reading the following books:

The China Study - T. Colin Campbell
The Food Revolution - John Robbins
Healthy at 100 - John Robbins
Reversing Heart Disease - Dr, Dean Ornish

The bottom line of all these books is that adoption of a plant based diet can reverse or at best hold at bay many of the late onset diseases that are common in North America including Prostate Cancer, Diabetes, Heart Disease etc. In areas of the world where a plant based diet is popular, the instances of these diseases is rare.

Since I adopted the vegetarian diet and also applied visualization techniques to fight my cancer, my PSA has dropped from 5.9 in March 09 to 5.28 in September 09. Additionally my blood pressure has dropped from 135/98 to 117/78. I have also shed 15 pounds and have returned to my weight when I was 35 years old. I have more energy and feel much better.

All that said, I still have PCa and am having a Da Vinci procedure this coming Tuesday. In my mind, I have held the cancer at bay for the eight months I waited for surgery and am in top physical condition to meet the challenges that face me next week. I truly believe that the plant based diet has had an impact on the improvements. It was my personal decision and I believe it has worked for me.

I hope that helps,

Regards,
Bill
Posted 9/26/2009 1:27 AM (GMT 0)

Purgatory said...
Ohio,

If cancer feeds on sugar, I really am screwed! I don't smoke, don't drink at all, eat limited red meats, almost never eat fried foods, but I am a sugar junky, one of my few remaining joys, mostly in the form of chocoalte, but will indulge in anything sweet lying about if hard up.

Why sugar in particular?

My uro/surgeon and gp feel that the dietary changes are like worrying about the horse after it is out of the barn, but I haven't asked my radiation oncologist about it, so that will be a good question for her.

David

I agree with you and your urologist.  The dietary and lifestyle changes should have been made decades ago to make an impact on current cancer.  While their might be a "feel good" element to making a change it will not cure you or make any significant change in how your cancer grows.  It will make a difference as to your future health and well being. 

So, it is good to do those things and it will make you a healthier person, BUT..it is irresponsible to claim that short term dietary and lifestyle improvements will really make a difference.

Posted 9/26/2009 1:51 AM (GMT 0)
lifeguyd, anytime a person makes health or dietary changes for the better, it always has some positive benefit. I admit, I ate terrible for most of my life, and if diet is ever proven to be a direct cause of PC, then I guess I did msyelf in years ago. When you are young, you think you are eternal. My GP who I have a real long term relationship with, is against most supplements. He thinks they do little good after the fact, and in most cases men are just producing expensive urine, as most of the supplements get flushed right out of the body without being absorbed. Only stating his opinion as a doctor. We talked about dietary changes once, he said if it helped me lose some weight, be a great health benefit, but from a cancer point of view, its already there. I don't smoke, but he said, if a person who does smokes wants to do anything to lengthen his life or upgrade his health, then quit smoking. He doesn't understand how people can go as far as becoming vegans, and walking 5 miles a day and smoking. He said all the other good things they do are 100% negated by their smoking.

We all choose our vices, but then we must accept responsibility when they take a toll on our lives later on in life. Not being judgmental to anyone, live free or die.

David in SC
Posted 9/26/2009 12:13 PM (GMT 0)
check this out and what'd you think.

http://seniorsaloud.blogspot.com/2009/06/cancer-survivor-dr-tom-wus-recipes-for.html
Posted 9/26/2009 12:49 PM (GMT 0)
The other important point that I neglected to state in my earlier post is that doctors attending medical school get the equivilant of one class on nutrition in their entire stay at school. You would be hard pressed to find any doctor who can give you authoriative advice on the affects of diet on your health.

When I told my urologist I was going vegetarian, he said "go ahead, it won't matter what you do". After mentioning that I had used visualization techniques and diet change to fight my cancer, the pre-op doctor for my Pca surgery said "it doesn't matter what you did, you still have cancer". They simply are not equipped to answer these questions outside of their knowledge of nutrition.

If you read no other book but the China Study by T. Colin Campbell, you will come away convinced that diet can work to change your health. You only have to look at the average North American to see that we are in trouble on this continent as far as diet is concerned.

Here is an interesting site to check out. A new documentary video by a series of doctors and nutritionists that believe we are killing ourselves with diet.

http://www.processedpeople.com/order.htm

Anyway, I will now step down from the soap box and leave you all in peace. I guess I just feel very strongly about this diet thing and my cancer.

Keep well,
Regards,
Bill
Posted 9/26/2009 3:04 PM (GMT 0)
Bill,

The things you did to you diet, are good and healthy, no doubt there. Your "visualization" method, can't say I understand exactly what you did or didn't do, must of helped your mental attitute and helped you get through to your current point of recovery, and that is good.

But I believe you medical professionals are trying to tell you something, becoming a vegetarian now, or following all the examples of Native American lifestyles, or having the best mental attitude in the world doesnt change the reality that you have cancer. It may have been hereditary, a dna defect, exposures to toxins, a thousand reasons, doesn't remotely mean you did anything wrong.

My wife is an experienced nurse, and she is a dietician nurse, she reports to a doctor that specialized in dietian matters, and they both say that the healthy dietary changes can and will improve your general quality of life and how you feel.

Just my opinion, because I have been there and done this myself, after getting cancer, part of the acceptence process is to assign blame, and its not uncommon to blame yourself, i.e. Why did I gain so much weight? Why do I drink so much? Why do I smoke? Why do I eat meat? and on and on and on.

Unless someone wants to produce a 100% valid source or link, I don't believe there is any proof out there, that certain foods or diets guarantee that you will get cancer, PCa or any other kind.

Keep doing what you are doing, if it works for you, and you obviously feel it does, then do it for you, and your well being.

But we must not discount the reality side of our illness and disease. I work p/t for a Hypnotherapist, doing accounting/tax work for him, and he was trying to convince me that you can will yourself to stop cancer growth. At that point, he lost any hope of credibility with me.

My best to you with your healing.

David in SC
Posted 9/26/2009 4:43 PM (GMT 0)
Another way to look at it is, perhaps it's not necessily what we eat. Perhaps it's more related to weight. Those that watch what they eat, in general are probably closer or at their ideal weight, which can alter the possibilty of a cancer emerging.
Posted 9/26/2009 6:47 PM (GMT 0)
Hey David,

I hear you loud and clear. I never claimed I was curing myself of cancer. I was fighting it with diet and my mind in order to buy time until the surgery which was an 8 month wait. The PSA going down might be a fluke in the readings but I feel I had some input in that over the last eight months. Certainly is better than it going up. My weight dropped from 155 to 145 pounds. I never was overweight. The blood pressure drop is real and can't be disputed, it is what it is. In all this I never blamed myself for getting this cancer. The choices I made in diet over the last 60 years or so were mine and I have to live with that.

Yes, I do still have the cancer and my original decision to have surgery never wavered throughout the wait. The diet changes and visualization were my way of fighting back.

It was a personal choice that I made as I stated in an earlier post and may not be everyone's cup of tea. I was just answering the original question about a vegetarian diet posted in this thread and offering my experience as a guide.

Keep well,

Regards,
Bill
Posted 9/26/2009 8:14 PM (GMT 0)
I agree 100% with Bill.  Read "The China Study"...Diet seems to be a catalyst that allows some cancers to grow and develop.  And, so maybe you already do have Prostate Cancer...and maybe it won't kill you...But you may be 5 years away from a heart-attack that will kill you.  My cholestrol is WAY down since I changed my diet, and I have lost 25lbs.  Changing my diet was nowhere as difficult as I thought it would be.  I highly recommend it.  BTW, I'm not 100% vegetarian, but I have drastically changed my eating habits.  Another good book is "Eat to Beat Prostrate Cancer Cookbook" by David Ricketts.

Posted 9/26/2009 9:35 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks so much for everyone gave me your opinion. from reading all these post and with my past experiance, I do believe that eat more veg and fruit and eat less meat would help one's overall health, as well as may slowing cancer grow( some veg and fruit do content anti cancer element). that is why I am starting change diet to less meat, more veg & fruit for my family, escpically my husband. My husband loves steak, wine etc but he has to make some changes.

cancer is unpredictable, we have do everything we can to win the battle.

I truly wish the best for everyone here and their family!

Jennifer
Posted 9/26/2009 10:28 PM (GMT 0)
If diet can reverse heart dis/ease, which is generally accepted, why coudn't it reverse cancer? urologists are like everyone else some are mean spirited and some are not
Posted 9/27/2009 10:08 AM (GMT 0)
....I improved my diet when diagnosed about 5 years ago...Went for more vegetables/green tea/very little alcohol /little meat/lots of fish and walked 5 miles every day.....I also took a small amount of zinc in supplement form....This did not slow my cancer progression...In fact I believe that it made it worse.....I read recently that the key to to reducing the progression of cancer lies in Calorific reduction..ie not providing your body with excess calories or nutrients as these go to feeding the cancer......The article went on to say that the body first takes nutrients for its normal system and that left over go the wrong place....There is a guy in the US.a scientist that has dedicated his life to a low calorie diet to see if there is an increase in lifespan/reduction in cancer...So who knows...More of a good thing may not work....
Posted 9/27/2009 2:04 PM (GMT 0)
Squirm,

Let me add a twist to your thinking on that point. Of course, it is best if a person, male or female, are at their perfects body weight, BMI, etc for their age and height and bone structure. That would promote overall healthier living by itself.

But we have men here, that were perfect physical specimens for years, no weight issues, exercised frequently, etc. - got PC regardless. We have men here that have been long terrm vegeterians and vegans, still got PC.

Not speaking of you in this next remark, squirm, but I think some people are either trying to blame themselves, someone else or just blame in general for getting cancer. It's a common reaction to dealing with it. Been there and done that with all I have been through over the past 10 years in particular.

If a person is genecically pre-deposed to certain cancers, or have other medical factors to make them that way, they are going to get cancer whether they are tall or short, fat or skinny, whether they eat burgers every day and chain smoke at the same time.

I am totally for healthy lifechoices. I do some of my own, but like many people, it's a la carte style. Because if I did everything I was suppose to do for healthy lifestyle, and only eat what is organic and healthy and no junk food, etc, then I would be a miserable person and have no quality of life.

And you know what, even if I did all of the above, I still would have gotten PCa. Not just my opinion, that's the opinion of a total of 6 doctors I have spoken to about this.

David in SC
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