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Posted 10/8/2009 12:36 PM (GMT 0)
Good day folks,

Well, it is a week and a day since my Da Vinci surgery and I have to admit that I am feeling quite well. With no pain and having the ability to walk outside every day, I am healing faster than I had anticipated.

The catheter maintenance has become somewhat routine and I am well used to changing night bags for leg bags etc, so much so that I started to wonder this morning, where will all the urine go after the catheter is removed next Wednesday? I emptied 1500 millilitres this morning from the night bag and began to question how any pad could absorb even a quarter of that. So, if there is no bladder control, how do you get the nod to get up at night and change pads at the right time? Where does all that urine go?  Any comments would be appreciated..

Keep well, Regards,

Bill

 

Posted 10/8/2009 12:47 PM (GMT 0)
For me, it was Depends underpants, lots of them. I started out using 6 per day. Don't know their capacity in ml, but it seeed to me they weighed several pounds more coming off than going on. However, at night I barely leaked at all. I was using a 24" square pad under the sheet to protect the mattress in the event of a major crisis, but abandoned that after just a couple of nights. I think that by lying down the pressure is off the bladder neck, and the leaks don't start until you stand up. Then it's a race to the john. After about 2 weeks things got a whole lot better, and I exchanged the Depends for a guard pad that fits inside the tighty whities. I use about 3 per 24 hour period, and I am 5 weeks post-surgery Hope this helps. All the best. Roger
Posted 10/8/2009 12:53 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Bill..........congrats on getting through the surgery and cath week. It was my experience that the night alerts would be the same as you would expect, if ya gotta go, ya gotta go. I tired to drink less fluid as the evening appproached, and I'm a big water drinker. I didn't cut down, but drank more during the day. I found that I was dry overnight from the get-go, and during the day, my diapers, and then pads had relatively little work to do. Of course, everyone is different (tired phrase) and your surgeon's skill, your physical make-up, etc. has so much to do with it. I think you will find that you'll be able to hold your urine better than you think, and your level of continence will improve over time. I know that looking at that bag fill up has you wondering, but just "go with the flow" and I think and hope you'll be pleasantly surprised.........keep us posted

               Arnie in DE

Posted 10/8/2009 1:00 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Roger and Arnie,

Many thanks for the tips. Sounds a lot better than I had imagined. Living close to Niagara Falls, I had visions of the falls opening up at night and not being able to get to the john in time. As you say, go with the flow.  Another tiny step to be taken in this journey back.

Keep well,
Regards,
Bill
Posted 10/8/2009 1:56 PM (GMT 0)
Bill,

It's true, with a night bag on, it seems like thats when the bladder drains the most, I have been a long term catheter user, and my typical night load is between 1200-2000. I use to think the same thing, never be able to hold that all night, etc. When I have been off the catheters, the longest period was just shy of six months, I never ever leaked or had a problem at night, in fact I went 100% dry at night, which seems typical to a lot of the men here. When not on a catheter, I do have to go to the bathroom 2-3 times at night, when pre-surgery, I never did.

Good luck to you in your recovery, and keep us well posted.

David in SC
Posted 10/8/2009 2:22 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Modelshipwright,

You've come to the right place my friend. Here are some real numbers measured on a Mettler Laboratory balance. These are more useful than the unscientific labels stuck on the packages.
I'll give you two numbers. The first is the maximum safe value, the second is when leakage starts.
Your mileage my vary.

  • Depend Underwear for Men Super Plus, Size S/M: 450 ml.....600 ml
  • Depend Boost insert:... 200 ml (must be worn with above)
  • Depend Men's Guard:.. 150 ml.... 175 ml
  • Tena pads for men:..... 140 ml.... 150 ml
  • CVS Protect. pad Max:. 160 ml.... 175 ml
  • Options by Assurance:.. 90 ml..... x
  • Carefree mini pads:...... 15 ml.... 20 ml


I ran experiments with pads inside diapers so I could see when they leaked without messing my pants. You can't run it to the limit if you are wearing them just inside your regular underwear.
Sadly, I am becoming an expert on Personal Pee Protection Products.
Jeff

I edited this for clarity since the formatting does not permit multiple spaces.

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 10/8/2009 9:13:18 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/8/2009 2:29 PM (GMT 0)
Jeff, with your expertise on the pads, and me on catheters, we should open our own consulting service or store.

BTW, I found the CVS brand pull-ups a terrible problem, the fitting around the leg openings were terrible, and they could leak from any number of places. I hate to plug a brand, but I felt safe and secure with any of the real Depends products. Though I hardly used any of them in my case.

Good luck,

David in SC
Posted 10/8/2009 2:46 PM (GMT 0)
Ditto on what other guys are saying. I found initially, if i was laying down, I generally was dry. When I got up from bed I had to physically pinch it off and walk briskly to the toliet. It eventually gets so you can hold it without the pinching. That's when you can see you are making progress.

I actually would try to lay in bed as long as I could ( also I'm lazy) to help stretch my bladder back out, and to strenghthen my sphincter.

I'm down to a pad a day, hopefully another month or so and I'll be dry.

Just don't get discouraged. It is easy to do. It just takes some time, unless you are one of those guys that starts out dry.
Posted 10/8/2009 3:23 PM (GMT 0)
For me I wake up normal with the urge to pee at night. Able to make it to the bathroom with no problem. I'm usually up still 2 or 3 times a night. This last week I've noticed that I can hold more longer at night. I've been blessed and only used 1 pad the day the cath came out. 0 pads since then.

Larry
Posted 10/8/2009 4:39 PM (GMT 0)
Modelshipwright,
Once I got my flow calibrated I stopped wearing the diapers at night and wore big boy underwear (Star Wars) with a Depends Men's Guard in place. I did not like the sweaty plastic feeling. I was dry at night very early and could last 6 hours no problem. However, the instant I stood up, the flow began. I'd run to the bathroom while trying to kegel so hard my mouth puckered. I asked my supposedly supportive wife if she would move the toilet to my side of the bed or at least install a urinal along side the armoire but she refused. I even told her I heard it was good for men's prostate health, but no dice. Go figure!
My big issue now is constant light leak and standing up after sitting for a while.
Take a guess what I will be doing exactly 3 seconds after I hit the "Submit" button.
Jeff 3..2..1..
Posted 10/8/2009 5:07 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Jeff,

Thanks for the stats. I am sure that it will help me along with the info on various combinations of pads, depends etc. To say that I am looking forward to this is with mixed feelings. The catheter allows maximum freedom and more uninterupted sleep. On the other hand I want it out so I can get to the next step and practice continence training. Still, this is a lot less to worry about than waiting for the surgery.

Thanks for all your help guys,

Kepp well,
Regards,
Bill
Posted 10/8/2009 8:35 PM (GMT 0)
Bill,
One of the first questions I asked on the site was about PPPP, personal pee protection products. You'll find that the labeling really does not quantify what you need to know. They just show 2 drops or 4 drops or 5 but there are no engineering values. That's why I did the study myself. I had the tools so why not? I was home anyway.
There is one caveat: I am not a big guy so that might have an effect, too. 5' 9" 150 lbs. I'm guessing if you have more meat between your thighs there is less room for pee storage.
I am telling all of you right now, I am not volunteering to weigh your pads. Sorry!

Good luck with the next stage of your recovery. May it be as dry as your last martini. and as short as a military haircut.
Jeff
Posted 10/8/2009 10:03 PM (GMT 0)
Yup Jeff, I hear you. I am 5'-7" and 145 lbs normally, but after no real food for a week, I came home from hospital at 141 lbs. Gained back 1 lb so far.

Ummm...... weighing the pads eh? I don't think I will be doing that either. As a matter of interest, where do you dispose of these things anyway? If it is in the regular trash as opposed to recycling ( who would want my pee to recycle anyway ), it is a good thing that the weather has cooled off or the garbage could be a treat to smell in the garage between collections. PeeeeOoooooo!

Keep well,
Regards,
Bill
Posted 10/8/2009 10:50 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Bill,
We added a second trash can to the bathroom. A covered, lined trash can with a top that I can kick off with one foot. That is critical when you are standing there with a new pad betwen your teeth, one hand holding the old full pad freshly ripped out of your undies and your other hand holding the waistband ready for insertion.
I believe Veridian Dynamics has a solution for this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkkHyfLLR54
A small diaper pail would be ideal but it's been 25 years since we last used ours for its intended purpose. (I think I saw it recently out in the barn with bird seed and mouse traps inside.

By the way, for all my complaining, if this is a bad as it gets I still consider myself a lucky guy.
Jeff
(If the pail is still around I'll give it to you next year when you come to the 2010 GFMPH retreat.)

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 10/8/2009 5:22:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/8/2009 11:08 PM (GMT 0)
Jeff, not aa doubt in my mind, you are the resident pro on pads. All future questions will filter by your desk.

David
Posted 10/8/2009 11:08 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Bill,

After my catheter was removed the only time I had any control was sitting or lying down. As soon as I would get up it would gush uncontrollably until I was empty. I kept a container near the bed for use when I got up which worked quite well. I found pinching it was too painful.

Good luck to you and welcome to the right side,
Bob
Posted 10/9/2009 1:13 AM (GMT 0)

Bill,

You received alot of data regarding pads but I don't think that your question was answered. For most* guys the road to dryness takes a bit of time but immediately after catheter removal your bladder and sphincter go back to work. Of course as the Docs say "you have to retrain your bladder", hence, kegel excercises. If you are like most of you  will have a lower bladder capacity for a while and will feel the need to go more often, and will not bypass a mens room w/o dropping by. You will probably need pads for a while (and the doc should explain and show you what to use). Briefs, not boxers. You will start out with several a day and eventually reduce your usage and size of pads. Eventually you will notice that, by goodness, you don't need them anymore. It took me 3 months from a-z. I packed the little buggers in suit pockets, brief case and car just in case, but eventually ...no more. One caveat: once in a while if I cough or laugh in a funny way I have a teeny spurt, a drop. So, maybe dry right away, maybe 3 months or a year but the course should be similar for most.

* I recognize guys, that we all have a separate experience but the stats say that ~80+% get control back.

 Ted

Posted 10/9/2009 5:48 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Jeff you forgot to include in your list the half a baby diaper that I used to use after the catheter removal
Posted 10/9/2009 12:20 PM (GMT 0)
Good day folks,

Many thanks for all the suggestions re: disposal. Starting today I am going to practice holding a pad between my teeth while I attempt an exchange of pads in my gauchies. ( In my mind only ) Sounds like a treat to perform and hopefully the doorbell won't go when I am in the middle of all this. I can imagine a neighbour dropping by and asking what I was doing chomping on a sanitary pad..................................

By the time next years GFMPH Jeff, I hope I won't need that pail you offered but I will make a mental note just in case.

Keep well,
Regards,
Bill
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