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Catheter question (Sonny?)

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Posted 1/16/2010 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
OK-- 9 more days until we get the gland gone.

In looking through the materials, they recommend bringing along some vinegar to use when changing the bag. Keep in mind I will probably have that supra pubic catheter rather than a Foley (one of the plusses with Dr. Menon).

OK, I know nothing about catheters. I assume when the bag is full or near full, we take the bag off, rinse it out with the vinegar (teaspoon full was recommended), and then put the bag back on. My question:

What happens to me when I remove the bag to empty it? Is there a clamp so that the urine won't drip on the floor? But, then will it come out through the penis? Or is everything at a standstill while the bag is being cleaned.

Another question: I think at some point they will want me to fill the bag, measure the contents, and then pee regularly into a measuring cup to estimate retention. Does it hurt to pee at that point? I think that point may be 4-7 days post-op.

I hope this elementary question makes sense.

Mel

Posted 1/16/2010 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
mel why the sp cather? i thought the foley was used so the uretha could heal. enlighten me. i may have missed something you said in another post. good luck with your op. i have noticed you have done your homework very well. good job . you should be well prepared. neil
Posted 1/16/2010 6:43 PM (GMT 0)

dR. Menon has developed a surgery that allows use of the SP rather than the Foley!

Mel

Posted 1/16/2010 8:57 PM (GMT 0)
Mel, I have been on an SP catheter for 108 days in a row currently. Dr. Menon at the Ford Hospital is one of the few that uses the SP catheter instead of the Foley. I can tell you from 1st hand experience, that once the catheter either exits your penis or below your navel (as does my SP), the catheter functions the same way, and you use the same techiques with either the leg bag or the larger over night bag.

I believe that Dr. Menon's thinking is that with a Foley catheter, it is running right up the urethra and through the bladder neck connection, and despite all attempts, it will rub and chafe from normal movements. I believe he does it with the SP, so that the bladder neck connection can heal better without irritation.

In the normal course of using a catheter, you don't need to remove it to empty it. If you have a leg bag on, you just put your foot up on the edge of the toliet (seat up or down) and reach down and release whatever type of valve it has, it will drain in the toilet, then you close off the valve, wash your hands and you are done. WIth the larger bag, we call the night bag, it usually can hold 2 liters, you do not need to disconnect to empty. Same process as above, you walk over to the toilet, with the tube still attached, and hold the bag over the toilet and release the valve, then close it when empty.

The vinager cleaning methods is not needed every time or even every day, depends how long you will be on the catheter.

As long as you are on the cath (probably 5-10 days max), you would never be off of both bags for long, unless you were changing from the big bag to the leg bag, or the reverse of that. Bags are easy to change, you just squeeze the tube with two fingers, and slowly work the tube off from the connection, then hold up the other bag and reverse things. Quite easy to do.

Some men shower with the big bag on, you can, you can leave the bag outside the shower curtain on the floor with the tube coming up from under, or just put the bag in the shower with you. Or you can disconnect the bag and either take a shower with no bag, not like its going to be pouring out of you, or you can ask for a simple catheter plug, made out of plastic, to stick in the open end of the catheter and it will keep things from leaking.

More good advice, you don't want to go to sleep with a leg bag attached, as it can back flow into your bladder. The urine is only sterile in your bladder and the second it come out, as soon as it hits the tube and/or bag, its contaminated. If you are going to be around the house mostly, then just keep the big bag on all the time. I only use a leg bag when I have to leave the house.

You will learn real fast not to snag the tube, or trip over it, one good pull on the tube is enough lesson for most of us. Just remember, the balloon that holds it in place in your bladder is not going to pull out, that is the whole purpose.

David in SC
Posted 1/16/2010 9:09 PM (GMT 0)
That was very informative--thanks

Mel

Posted 1/16/2010 9:54 PM (GMT 0)
Mel, if you want more tips or tecniques, please ask, this is one area where I am undisputed King by default, lol. This long spell of catheter times doesn't even count the 63 days I was on foley catheters before this event.
Posted 1/16/2010 11:46 PM (GMT 0)
Mel,

Just got in from RV shopping and see that you have already received a lot of good info. But here is my take on the experience with the SP and Dr. Menon.

When you are in the operating room they will actually install both the Foley and the SP. The Foley is used to keep everything lined up and in place for the reattachment of your internal tubing, sphincter and the bladder neck. Depending on how the surgery goes you will either wake up with the Foley or not. In my case they removed the Foley when the surgery was complete. I woke up with only the SP. If I remember correctly you have been having some BPH issues before this so I don't know how it will affect you. If you do wake up with both the Foley and the SP, their standard procedure is to remove the Foley before you are discharged the next day.

Maybe you can work real hard on not being an exception to the rule. LOL

I went into detail in an early post about why Dr. M uses the SP, but the short of it was that he was developing newer and better surgical procedures for the plumbing connections and prostate removal part of it. He knew that to develop these he needed to make absolutely certain that there would be no urine leakage into certain areas of the surgical procedure and recovery. Hence the use of the SP.

Where the SP tube exists you body there is a shut off valve. When you need to clean the bag or change from the large to the small, you just turn the valve off. Because you have been wearing the cath the bladder will be empty. I never had a problem with leakage and I cleaned or swapped the bags out daily.

The other use for the on off is when you start the "Bladder Cycling Process. Two days before the cath is removed you will start in the morning by emptying the bag and shutting off the valve. This will let you collect in the bladder. When you feel the urge to go you do it the good old fashion way. But you collect it in a container they provide and measure the quantity. Then you turn the valve on for 5 minutes and let it go to the bag. This you also measure. They give you a chart to track the amount voided and the amount retained in the bladder. You do this all day both days prior to the removal. At night you reconnect to the bag and let it run. They don't want you continually getting up in the middle of the night to go.

I really believe that this cycling or training of the bladder is why so many of his patients leave the hospital and never experience incontinence.

The SP cath never caused me any issues at all and the removal was a big "nothing". Only felt a slight pull and tug. No pain at all.

I sure hope that your experience is as good as mine was. The SP was very comfortable and helpful in allowing me to walk all that I did.

Hope this answers you questions,

Sonny
Posted 1/17/2010 12:10 AM (GMT 0)
Mel, simple answer: The bag has a valve on the bottom, which you open and drain, while still dripping into the top. You will be instructed in when and how to clean it. There's probably a half dozen ways, depending on the hospital and nurse.
Posted 1/17/2010 1:01 AM (GMT 0)
David,

Long live the King. You have worked very hard to get that title.

Goodlife
Posted 1/17/2010 2:12 AM (GMT 0)
Goodlife, my reign may continue on after Tuesday's corrective surgery, as I may be sporting Catheters #11 & #12 at the same time. That's a scary thought. With all that is planned on this event, told my doctor that I really didn't want to know all the details ahead of time, just knock me out cold and let me enjoy the netherworld while he does his thing.

David in SC
Posted 1/17/2010 3:27 AM (GMT 0)
Had a Foley in for a few weeks after my dilation. Best tip I can give (for any night bag) is : Get a small bucket with handle. Hang night bag in bucket and place bucket on floor at side of bed for the night. When you get up in the morning, you can carry the bucket with the bag around quite easily until you shower and switch to a leg bag if you choose. Drain as needed, of course. Worst Foley experience? An erection. Not good....
Posted 1/17/2010 3:18 PM (GMT 0)
Purgatory:

Going in for the surgery in a few days, my main concern at this time seems to be this dreaded catherder thingy.

Your explanation above does put my mind more at ease
and my wife and I are most gratefull for that.

Thank You my KING!
.
Posted 1/17/2010 3:34 PM (GMT 0)
JB71,

Good luck on your upcoming surgery, you are no youngster, so I hope you bounce back fast. Listen to your body's signals after surgery during recovery. Take your stool softeners, rest plenty, walk when you can, take meds if you need them (no prize for acting touch, I am all about proper pain management).

For most surgery men, the catheter is worse in the mind then in reality. Yours will be put in while you are knocked out, you won't know a thing about it, until you are in recovery, and your hands suddenly notice the little tube coming out of you. You cath might be in a short as 3-5 days or as long as 10-14 days, depends on your surgeon and how much difficulty they have with the bladder neck/urethra connection.

Most of catheter care is common sense. The "hardware" is simple enough to understand. During your initial recovery, it really is a lot easier to leave the "big" bag on all the time, unless you are going to be away from your house. THey hold a lot more, most have a pressure valve of sorts in place so that you don't have a lot of back pressure going on. Leg bags are just collection bags, a good quality one will last and be comfortable, a cheap one will pull down and leak after long use.

The attachment of the "Y" portion of the catheter after it exits and attachs to your thigh is important. Usually the one you get from the hospital is better then most of them that uro's hand out. The better ones can handle getting a few shower's worth of wet, but the cheap disposable ones won't even last a day. Be careful of tape burn, if you are sensitive to it. I have black and blue bruises in almost any place that you can put a cath holder onto my leg, I keep changing spots. Looks like a junkie looking for a new needle site, lol.

For the short time most surgery guys have caths, they don't like it, but its not usually a big issue. A lot of times, by the time the stiches come out or staples, its time to have the catheter removed. I have had 9 removed so far in the past 15 months, none of them hurt coming out, they feel weird and odd, a bit unpleasant, but there is no pain. Trust me, I would tell you if any of them hurt.

David in SC
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