HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

STARTED HT

Support Forums
>
Prostate Cancer
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 11/27/2010 2:42 AM (GMT 0)
Two weeks ago PSA was up to 1.0.  Bone scan showed one small (1 cm) hot spot in pelvis confirmed as pca by MRI.  Mayo docs started me on one four month lupron shot and will radiate the spot which they say could be causing the rise in my psa (is that possible?). I asked why not ADT3 and they said that could be down the road, lets see what happens with the Lupron monotherapy.  Does that make sense?  Again, docs say that most Gleason 8-10 will need HT regardless of path report.  Needless to say I'm very depressed and disappointed - don't know if I am going to be able to handle the HT. The Old Sailor
Posted 11/27/2010 2:51 AM (GMT 0)
Old Sailor, Man I hate hearing news like this. I do wish you well with HT. Can't give you any advise or really any comment except that I hope you fly through this stuff like a champ.

Cajun Jeff
Posted 11/27/2010 3:00 AM (GMT 0)
Not sure that I am qualified to say if it makes sense, but Mayo has a great reputation. Hang in there as a number of us are facing the same journey.
Michael
Posted 11/27/2010 5:36 AM (GMT 0)
Old Sailor:

Just hang in there. It is not a fun thing but you will manage.

Just remember that it is a LOT better than the alternative.

I've been there and I'm a wuss. So I'm sure you can handle it

Don K.

Posted 11/27/2010 2:10 PM (GMT 0)
Good luck old sailor. I hope you don't suffer from any bad side effects.
Posted 11/27/2010 5:57 PM (GMT 0)
(revised)-   You know Dr. Strum is a hellava sailor and knows the waters well, he retired now but we have his books, internet archives and such.  You can handle HT, you might not love it, but you can do it.

Post Edited (zufus) : 11/27/2010 2:36:12 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/28/2010 1:14 AM (GMT 0)
Zufu - what is the link to Dr. Strum's articles on HW.  I was disappointed when the doc did not want me to have ADT3 now.  Seems to me that hitting it early and hard is the thing to do (I have read Dr Myers book.)  I am now searching  med oncs not to far from Jacksonville to get another opinion. Possibly Univ Florida - any suggestions. Also, I am really concerned that a one centimeter hot spot on bone scan confirmed by MRI is there since everything I read says hot spots extremely unlikely with psa below 7.0. Even the doc said that.   Thanks for all the advice and help from all.   The Old Sailor.

Posted 11/28/2010 2:12 AM (GMT 0)
Good luck, Old Sailor, from another old sailor. I would dread the HT route personally, but wish you all the best on this new path, hope it does it job for you.

David
Posted 11/28/2010 3:40 AM (GMT 0)
Old Sailor:

Here are links to two excellent articles on the Prostate Cancer Research Institute website that should help to cope with the SEs of Androgen Deprivation Therapy, often mistaken for "hormone therapy:'

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/education/andind/Guess_TestosteroneSideEffects.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/2ymb8f

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/education/sidefx/Strum_ADS.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/g6fzp

This site is objective and encyclopedic.
Posted 11/28/2010 10:36 AM (GMT 0)
Old Sailor,

My dad has just started on HT just over a month ago and though i'ts still early days, So far so good. Apart from initial sore tummy from injections and 1 hot flush he has been absolutley fine. Dad is Gleason 9 and had a little pain in his bones which has now gone due to HT. We know that treatment will be lifelong now but he's still here and that's what counts. It does change your life but it has given us time to do and appreciate all the things that som people don't get. Take care,

Lisa

Posted 11/28/2010 1:05 PM (GMT 0)
Brother-in-law diagnosed with prostate cancer 6 years ago and prostate removed. Was on hormon treatments for past year which lowered PSA but hormones stopped working 3 months ago. He's 60 years old. PSA elevated again to 50. Stopped hormones for past 3 months but ongologist is starting hormone treatments again. Biopsy shows metastasis to bones; ie back, arm, lungs, stomach, ribs. Radiation once a month to back for pain and bone strengthening. No chemotherapy recommended due to advanced stage. Does anyone have similar situation or experience. Trying to give my sister support. Thank you.
Diane
Posted 11/28/2010 2:00 PM (GMT 0)
Diane,

Welcome here, but sorry you needed to find us. Your brother in law in a tough position. Sorry so to hear about that. There are a few men here with real advanced cases that may be able to give you some proper answers. Sure this is hard on all of your families. Good luck.

David in SC
Posted 11/28/2010 2:29 PM (GMT 0)
Sailor:  In my opinion you're doing the right thing, try the HT and if it's not your cup of tea you can always stop.  You may be one of the lucky ones and have very few side effects.  If you don't like it or the side effects become too much to handle you can always stop, I just don't get the thinking that people won't even try it, if it wasn't reversible I think I'd understand it a little better.

I've been on HT for 18 months, I get another shot tomorrow.

David

Posted 11/28/2010 5:25 PM (GMT 0)
Glad you are looking at all your options, that is very wise in my mind. John T. can get you a weblink to Dr. Strums P2P archives or someone else can post such, you can see what others have asked to have reviewed on their cases and his answers for further suggestions (it is invaliable info). www.yananow.net has some info from his: What Every Doctor and Patient Should Know on PCa (amazing docs still today violate his wisdom given in this, which is like 7-8 yrs. old now).

Read his book A Primer on Prostate Cancer the Empowered Patients Guide (2nd edition it is few years old now, but he was ahead of the crowd in knowledge on PCa)...yours truly is on the inside cover w/photo as one of about 16 endorsers whom are PCa brothern in the fight. Me thinketh, heth is the righteous one of PCa docs, he speaketh utmost truth, even if it is not politically correct at times.

You might add D3 to your system for bone and health assistance, maybe 6000-10,000 units a day, you can do an OH25 blood test to see where you level off at, likely 60+ is ok, but maybe 70-100 level is ideal for PCa patient (Strum mentions numbers similar to this). You currently might be below 30 level as it is right now. It might help your bone density at this time and it is cheap to do. Best to you and consider adjusting how you fight PCa along the way, many have done well in so doing.
Posted 11/28/2010 8:33 PM (GMT 0)

I have been taking the D3 everyday now and looking at the various articles/books recommended.  Thanks to all for the advice and thoughts.

It is mind boggling to think that 15 months ago I was a post surgery pT2c with a good path report and seven months undetectable psa then failed RT and now starting HT with mets.  Several articles I have read say survival once metastatic cancer occurs is 3-4 years. WOW!  Sure doesn't look encouraging.  The Mayo docs seem somewhat baffled thus I am looking at other opinions.   The Old Sailor  

Posted 11/29/2010 3:19 AM (GMT 0)
Sailor, you can get the D3 combined with calcium pills, my doc recommended those..

Mrs. Pat, perhaps it's time to try something outside the box even though there is some risk involved..Years ago, before Lupron, DES was often used, an estrogen compound..Sometimes it's effective when Lupron is not..You might ask what his "T" (testosterone) level is. They can test for that. Sometimes Lupron does not work as well as they had wished..There are other, physical, means to lower "T" to zero..

Sometimes, the Grim Reaper can not be held at bay, and that eventuality simply must be faced..But don't ever make it easy for him....Live every day like it was your last one..
Posted 11/29/2010 7:37 PM (GMT 0)
Sailor:

This is another situation with the G9 rearing its head. Cure is fleeting in such cases as ours. You can read here, and then go to the journal article itself

http://www.psa-rising.com/med/hirisk/T3-hirisk05.html

That Mayo patients who were T3 BEFORE surgery did quite well with 79% cancer survival at 15 years. These men were mostly treated in 1988-1993, a L-o-o-o-o-ong time ago. You should do as well and perhaps better.
A biopsy is the only way to prove metastasis to your spine before treatment, just as was true of the biopsy necessary to diagnose you original tumor. Similar patterns in images such as Paget's disease, can fool many radiologists. They just cannot rule out all other possibilities.
Posted 11/29/2010 9:38 PM (GMT 0)
Sailor, I am going the ADT3 route. It was not recommended by my medical oncologist in Boston, just ADT2 (Lupron and Casodex). He did not seem to have a problem going to ADT3. I did have a consultation with DR Myer and made that recommendation.
Posted 11/29/2010 10:06 PM (GMT 0)

BB_Fan said...
Sailor, I am going the ADT3 route. It was not recommended by my medical oncologist in Boston, just ADT2 (Lupron and Casodex). He did not seem to have a problem going to ADT3. I did have a consultation with DR Myer and made that recommendation.

To clear up any misunderstanding among the folks, here's what the components of ADT3 do:

The LHRH agonist Lupron, Trelstar or Zoladex stop testosterone production by the testes.

Casodex / bicalutimide blocks the androgen receptors.

Avodart (and to a lesser degree Proscar) are 5-alpha reductase inhibitors that prevent the conversion of testosterone to the more-powerful dihydrotestosterone. Their use in treatment of prostate cancer is "off-label" and some medics are afraid to use them, notwithstanding their widespread use vs. prostate cancer.

Thus ADT3 addresses PSA production from three points.
Posted Today 3:12 AM (GMT 0)
Old Sailor,

If you are "Old Sailor" because you were in the military, thank you for your service.

Sorry to hear about the recent findings. I am shocked that this happened with such a low PSA.

Are they positive? How do they confirm this?

Keep us posted on your progress.

Jerry L.
Posted Today 4:04 AM (GMT 0)
Jerry, thanks,  I had over 30 years in the Navy and I really miss those wonderful years.   The hot spot was detected on a bone scan and confirmed by an MRI.  Oncologist says very small spot on pelvis but still considered minimal metastasis. Says it can be radiated?   I'm wondering what kind of  survival prognosis I have now with the met.  The Old Sailor  

Posted Today 4:39 AM (GMT 0)
Old Sailor, I had a spot on my spine that was detected by both a bone scan and MRI. Both my Urologist and radiation oncologist were convinced that it was PCa because of the location and were ready to hit it with RT. Because of my low PSA ,28 I requested a biopsy. It was scheduled, but before it was done they did another MRI with gadolinium (sp?) and determined that it was a false positive. You may want to push your docs on how conclusive your tests were in determining mets. Best of kuck. BB
Posted 12/2/2010 2:11 PM (GMT 0)

BB - I am going back to Rad Onc on 14 December to see if that spot is going to be radiated but I am going to ask him if he can order the MRI with gadolinium (sp) to confirm if the spot is really pca. 

From all the reading I have done on Pca in the last year, I do not understand why the docs still recommend SRT for Gleason 8-10 because it is most probably outside the prostate at RRP,  even if path reports are good.  My opinion now is wait for psa to rise and then start HT because that is where most Gleason 8-10 folks are going to end up anyway.  Do you think it could be the $$??? The Old Sailor

Posted 12/2/2010 7:16 PM (GMT 0)
My radiation treatments cost over $100,000. Billed to my insurance company of course. Given my G8 and other factors (organ confined and recurrence within one year) I didn't think that SRT would be the next course of treatment, but it was recommended by my urologist, 2 medical oncologists, and 2 radiation oncologists. I really pressed this issue with one of the medical oncologists after he told me that there was only a 30% chance SRT would cure my PCa. His response was: "yes at best it is only a 1 of 3 chance, but you have to go for it". It made sense to me. Best of luck. BB
Posted 2/18/2011 2:15 AM (GMT 0)
Brother-in-law is scheduled to get a stent put in his urethra/ureter tomorrow. Right kidney is enlarged and enlarged lymph node is putting pressure on urethra/ureter. HT worked for over a year but second attempt for HT lasted approximately 2 months and stopped again. Doctor says HT no longer working.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12