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No luck using trimix injection

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Posted 4/9/2011 7:31 PM (GMT 0)
I have been using trimix for the last 4 times with absolutely no results. It has also been very painful for about 45 minutes after I inject. I am using a diabetic syringe with 65 units. Any advice?
Posted 4/9/2011 8:49 PM (GMT 0)
Ruidoso, first Welcome to HW. Sorry you have to be here, but glad you found us.

Sorry you are having trouble getting trimix to work well for you. What's the details of your condition? Have you had PCa treatment, what kind?, how long ago, how long have you been trying trimix, have you also tried the pills? These answers would give us a little more idea of your situation and possibily we can help.

Have you been reading some of the excellant threads dealing with using and maximizing the effects of trimix? There's loads of them. Have you tried the pump, plump and prick method that we recommend? This info and lots of links can be found here:

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1827385

Get back to us with some details, and if you have tried the pump, plump and prick.. Also some details of your present technique of using the trimix would be helpful.
Posted 4/9/2011 9:59 PM (GMT 0)
I had the radical Davinci prostectomy done February 2010. My Gleason number was 7. The margins were clean and my lymph node were negative. I still use one pad/day and have to use a heavy pad if doing any exercise such as running or hiking. Also, if I do any " social drinking" I have to wear a heavy pad. I am 55 yrs old. I have tried Viagra with no susses. It seems to make me feel very light headed.
Posted 4/9/2011 10:07 PM (GMT 0)
Ok, sounds like a fairly routine recovery.

Have you tried the pump, plump and prick.technique described in the link I posted? Also some details of your present technique of using the trimix would be helpful. What size insulin syringe do you use? Were you shown in the doctors office how to inject, and did they do it once there? What were those results? Have you had any results at all at home, anything beyond the normal size? Have you had a swollen, 'heated' or itchy penis after the failures? Describe the ache/pain from the trimix you reported.
Posted 4/9/2011 10:36 PM (GMT 0)
I have not triied the pump or the pump and prick technique yet. I did the injection once in the drs office and was able to acheive an erection for about 30 minutes Since then, no luck. I have tried the injection about 3 times at home and get no response.... And my entire groin area and especially my testicals are quit painful. After about 45 minutes or pain,I have to take motrin and sit in a warm bath tub to ease the pain. Is this normal? Need help!
Posted 4/9/2011 11:23 PM (GMT 0)
Define normal for us post-treatment guys? turn turn turn turn

Do you have a penis pump? If not, you can do the plump and prick with a milking motion of the hand, to push blood into the penis and a rubber band around the base to hold the blood in. The best results will be from a penis that is engorged with blood to maybe 25% of an erection and a silicone ring applied to hold the blood (and the injected drug) in the penis for 3 to 5 minutes. Read the post I listed for all the fine details and try it. This techique will increase the odds of a successful erect, usable penis. If you don't have a pump, one can be found in any sex shop or online. all you need is something that will pull enough blood into the penis.

On another topic, have you been using a pump for penile therapy? If not, you should be doing so, it's never too late to start. This is very helpful in 'exercising ' the tissue, stretching the penis and the cavities, and providing enlargement and stretching of the tissues, to prevent atrophy. If you don't have one, there's a couple that most of the guys here use, in the $70 to &90 range, if you want to know more, ask... smilewinkgrin
Posted 4/9/2011 11:37 PM (GMT 0)
Ruidoso-
- what was the dosage you got in the doctor's office - and what amount did you try at home? - did your doctor talk about increasing the dose ( a little bit at a time)?
Posted 4/9/2011 11:49 PM (GMT 0)
The severe pain and aching, requiring motrin and warm baths are not normal at all. For the vast majority, the worse is a slight ache from one of the compnents of the trimix, but seldom described to that pain level you describe.

Now, then, how about you describe your injections procedure in detail, listing every steps, no matter how minor, that you take for the injection? Needle gauge, length, insulin syringe or other? Include the location of the stick, the angle, if any, the length of the needle, even the thickness of your penis during the process. There's something going on that isn't 'normal' and the best place to start is to look at every detail of you method of injecting. Do you experience any swelling spots or enlargements in just one area of the penis.

I keep asking questions to try to help, but you need to answer all my questions, so I can help you the most by having the most information you can provide.
Posted 4/10/2011 12:13 AM (GMT 0)
I am using a insulin syringe 30 gauge x 5/16"length 1 cc. This morning I used 65 units of trimix. I injected on the right side of my penis about half way between the base and head. I was also in the middle between the top side and bottom side at a 90degree angle. I did not use a pump before hand.
Posted 4/10/2011 12:16 AM (GMT 0)
I had no swelling in my penis ( maybe a slight tenderness at the injection site) but after 15 minutes or so my entire groin area is very sore and tender. Thanks for all the help
Posted 4/10/2011 2:00 AM (GMT 0)
Rui,

That is a goodly dosage of Trimix (more normal is anything from .10-.30cc). You have to hope that if it eventually does kick-in and work right that you don't poke thru a wall or something. (since you got nothing so far a 4+ hr erection seems unlikely tho).

Any idea what the strength of your Trimix formula is? Usually something like 30mg Pap 1mg Phen and 10mcg PGE-1 (or 5 mcg or 20 mcg). Those are all per ml of water.

The only thing I can think of for the two symptoms you have is some rapid flushing out of the shot which then takes hold down in the groin area (maybe still in the corpus cavernosa .. but the portion leading back in thru your crotch instead of absorbing in the main part of the Corpus C in the penis.

So something like JamesC mentioned P&P+light constriction might work for you (but maybe cut back by 1/2 on your dosage if you seriously try it since it can enhance the effect). I do the lazyman's constriction after a shot by just squeezing around the base with thumb-index finger for 2 or 3 minutes to keep the shot in the area for a little longer. Seems to work fine.

I've never had any ache ( except the Good Ache) at .20cc of what is essentially 50mcg/ml trimix. And that easily lasts for 2-3 hrs or even more.

Oh one other item -- are you standing up while trying to get the erection going? Not sitting or laying down. << Now on second thought .. maybe for you sitting or lying down will SLOW the blood speed and help keep it around. Also I remember when I did get MUSE ache ,, standing made it worse .. lying down with hips ABOVE body helped.

<edited out 2 months -- Feb 2010 is 14 months >> I did not try injections til 2 years after surgery -- but was using pump daily for all that time -- so I am certainly limber and stretched well for Trimix now.


J

Post Edited (JStars) : 4/10/2011 4:36:05 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/10/2011 2:27 AM (GMT 0)
Rui,
sounds like you may have a technique problem when you are injecting.I agree with JStars that .65 is a goodly amount of Trimix. Maybe you can talk to your Uro and have him switch you to something else if it is not a technique issue. I use something called Quad Mix. It is some potent stuff. .10cc does the trick for me. I use a 31ga 5/16 needle. Good luck and here's to things looking up for you.
Posted 4/10/2011 2:29 AM (GMT 0)
Rui

I think your needles are too short. I started Trimix on your same length and gauge but after six months had to go to the 1/2 inch length and 29 gauge. I learned this because I was on Edex for awhile and Edex only uses  1/2 inch needles.

I would get the longer needles and reduce the dosage back to .25 cc. After I inject, I stand for about 5 minutes as it starts to work.

Posted 4/10/2011 4:28 AM (GMT 0)
Sounds like I need to go back to the ur. I am 14 months post op(not2months). I do stand while doing the injection and usually remain standing. I live in New Mexico and have to travel to Arizona to see the doc- but hopefully it will be worth it. Thanks for the advise and I'll keep you posted!
Posted 4/10/2011 4:53 AM (GMT 0)
Hey guys, my trimix solution must be extra strong compared to most of yours or I am a lot more sensitive. I use a max of 8 units (.08 ml (cc)) and am good for an hour or so with no pain. I also take 100 mg of viagra (ADC) about an hour before the injection. I've been using this combination for nearly 4 years. It took a good 8 - 10 tries before I got it right so don't give up if it doesn't work right away.

James C. has posted some excellent advice on technique. Try it and modify to suit your individual needs. Like everything else having to do with cancer, be patient, work at it and don't get discouraged. Like Jimmy V. said "Don't give up, don't ever give up".

Jim
Posted 4/10/2011 1:29 PM (GMT 0)
Ruidoso, another place that can be helpful is www.franktalk.org. It is run by one of our own here and is dedicated strictly to men's erectile dysfunction problems and specifically using pills, pumps, and injections. Some real experts there, if you want to ask them for help.
Posted 4/10/2011 3:16 PM (GMT 0)
Please tell us exactly what the ratio of ingredients is on the bottle.  There will be three numbers ___/___/___.  The amount of each drug can be increased.  You should also try the injection standing up and remain standing and see if that changes the effectiveness.  There is a valve in the penis that keeps blood in that with prostate surgery and lack of use may fail and not hold the blood where it needs to be.  Also, as I mentioned in a prior post, if you're consuming alcohol before the injection, there is a higher chance it will not work.

I had success with trimix and bimix but the ratios required change numerous times due to ineffectiveness, "too effectiveness" and pain caused by the third ingredient "prostaglandin."  A good compound pharmacist can assist you with some historical data about success, volume of injectible, and pain.  Good luck.

Posted 4/10/2011 8:24 PM (GMT 0)
The rx: 15/0.5/20. I have been standing and not consuming alcohol. I'm still very concerned about the extreme pain and of course the lack of lift off. This has been my experience the last 3 times .
Posted 4/11/2011 1:04 AM (GMT 0)
I'll preface my response with the "I'm not a doctor but..." I believe that last number of 20 is perhaps too high of a dose of the prostaglandin for you and which causes the pain in most patients who use trimix.  I had pain too (really bad pain of 4+ hours' duration) and they first eliminated the "tri" and then went back to using it at "10" when the bimix started not to work  My ratio is 30/1/10.  Either injection was hit or miss.  Sometimes the bimix worked, sometimes it didn't.  Same for the trimix.  Perhaps they need to increase the concentration of parts 1 and 2 and reduce part 3?  Just a thought.
Posted 4/11/2011 1:05 AM (GMT 0)
My rx is 20/30/1. It works every time with the 1/2 inch needle and I don't have any pain. It lasts for almost 3 hours
Posted 4/11/2011 1:12 AM (GMT 0)
3 hours of erection without pause or a 3 hour window?
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