Please Read ~ Offshore Drug Companies

I have proposed some changes to the other moderators concerning how we have dealt with open discussion on how to obtain prescription drugs from overseas pharmacies. In light of a string of frauds that have taken place against our members at a popular website many here have visited, I have proposed that we no longer allow the advertisement or mention of that website and unfortunately probably all such websites. For quite a while we had looked the other way with this as it truly has been a blessing to have a less expensive resource for drugs like Cialis, Viagra, and Levitra. The fact is that these drugs are heavily over charged here in the states. However, the drugs, in this case from India, are illegal to ship into the US and they are a violation of US patent law ~ and probably a few more. What's more is that it now appears that they are stealing our members credit card information for illegal uses.

I am writing to throw out a word of caution to anyone using offshore websites and companies to let them know of these risks, and the fact that indeed they are not able to fix the problem of security. If you have in fact used these websites and used a credit card or debit card it looks like you are at risk and should consider canceling and card you used at their website. What's more, if you still insist on ordering these drugs through such channels you need to find a way to do so without using an open credit card account number.

I am also writing to let you know that we may start reverting back to a long in place HW rule that you cannot link or discuss these here as we would be promoting them and after these events ~ they don't need to be promoted here. If anyone would like to share how to get drugs from overseas places you can do it through Email or whatever.

This isn't all bad news however. Next year Viagra comes out of patent and we will see a generic version available here in the US. This may entice the makers of Cialis and Levitra to lower their prices but I am not certain. They certainly will see a steep drop in orders once a low cost generic becomes available. Stay tuned...

Tony

Tony: I will just have to agree to disagree with you on this stance. The Drug companies and our health insurance has forced us to look in other places for solutions to the medication problem.

I have used the company and many others have as well without any problem. I found out about this possibility through HW and I am very grateful.

Certainly there are risk when you purchase anything over the internet. Tony we are still friend but I must say I disagree with your proposed change.

Cajun Jeff

Jeff I fully understand.
I knew that for some this would be an unpopular call and I welcome their input. But this isn't the same company they used to be since I can follow a couple dozen accounts of the same story ~ credit card fraud. And besides ~ folks can still share information off the board if they have some successes. But this did happen and it is still happening. So whether they had a small blip in the radar or the entire database of credit card numbers has been leaked I don't know. If we keep seeing more and more pop up it's likely the latter.

We have not made any decisions as yet but I think anybody looking into purchasing drugs in this manner should be aware that at very minimum they have in fact let their customers down by allowing theft to occur. I referred a friend to the site and sure enough she called me yesterday to say she had a problem and suspected that it was the site that breached the security. I told her what we have been discussing here for the last couple months. So the problem is likely still a problem and it has not been adequately fixed and they are a risk for anybody to use. That or there's a whole bunch of more fraud to be completed... I am ok with guys talking about how to safely use off shore sites, but I am also thinking that which sites they use can be shared privately as opposed to us mods tracking which ones are good and which ones are not.

Someone I thought had mentioned a while back that ADC had new owners. Curious if anybody has any info on that...

Tony

It's a catch twenty two and I'm never sure if I order online exactly what might be in that medication. But there again I never order anything from overseas.
Michael

The credit card fraud can be avoided by taking advantage of 'one use' numbers offered by some credit card companies. I'm not condoning the purchase of drugs from questionable sources but this is one way to keep your credit card safe when making any type of online purchase.

Bob

Paralleli,
I may be being too cautious. That's why I am open to everybody's thoughts here. One part of me has the buyer beware thought going and another part of me questions the intentions of the site and concern that new folks coming here will assume that the HW guys do it I'm sure it's safe.

I brought it up a few months ago that there are safe ways to shop the internet. I do it all the time. Paypal, once use cards, gift cards, etc. But for me when I see a pattern of issues I simply don't use that website.

I have never used ADC and I would never do it for the very reason's stated in this thread. These are drugs we would be ingesting and I simply know that there are bad people out there in the world. I have no idea where the drugs they sell come from and I have no recourse should there ever be an issue.

I will wait to talk to the mods and I will seek Peter's thoughts as well.

Tony

Just a comment on the legal issues . . .

In the European union, pharmacies are allow to sell drugs from other countries within the EU. The result is that prices are driven down. In the U.S., it is not legal to buy drugs from our neighbor and NAFTA partner, Canada. Even Medicare is not allow to negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical companies. The result is that the US has the highest drug prices in the world. It's no secret that lobbying congress can result in laws and regulations so they protect the interests of industry above ours.

Medical insurance companies react to high drug prices by looking for excuses not to cover medications. Labeling ED drugs as "recreational" is an excuse to limit coverage for them. A 100 mg brand name Viagra tablet costs $18 to $19 from Drugstore.com in the US. It's $14 from a Canadian online pharmacy. A generic table is $5-6 from a Canadian pharmacy, and is a lot less from the ADC type of pharmacy. There are many versions of the drug that are widely available around the world for about $1 a pill and are made by Indian pharmaceutical companies that make many other generic drugs for the US market.

The $18/pill cost happens because there are some insurance plans that pay for a modest number of tablets per month. If no brand name pills were being brought at $18/pill, Pfizer would lower the price, but would still make a nice profit. For individuals without insurance coverage, this cost will often either mean that they won't use the drug, or they have break a law which can't really be enforced, anyway, especially by those of us who can drive across the border in a couple of hours.

Guys,

This is an example of why I love this site. True support and information sharing.

Face it, we bought from there because of the positive feedback from trusted members. We can just as easily not buy from there based upon the negative feedback.
We need to spread the word and not buy anything from them until they fix the problem. It will happen quickly when the top dog notices he is no longer raking in as many rupees as before.

If we all learned how to use disposable, single use, credit card numbers we'd shut down the scammers. Let's make a vow to learn how.
We learned what a PSA, HT, free PSA, etc means. We can learn to protect ourselves.

Jeff

Gee ziggy - since you know so much - please provide us information on who to report the credit card fraud to.

financial censorship !?!?!?!?!?!? That's a stretch even for you....

Do you also want to sell us some swamp land in Arizona too? I hear there's great money to be made.....

Steve n Dallas said...
Gee ziggy - since you know so much - please provide us information on who to report the credit card fraud to.


financial censorship !?!?!?!?!?!? That's a stretch even for you....



Do you also want to sell us some swamp land in Arizona too? I hear there's great money to be made.....

The reports on credit card fraud should be reported here and of course to ADC.

Then I guess you should have your Indian friend call walmart and tell them to stop selling medication from India too.

What does your Indian friend say about said swampland? Can he get a better deal by Delhi or on the way to Nepal since he seems to be an expert a true guru on all things Indian.

Since most if not all US medical insurance charge outlandish prices for what is a needed medication here I don't think the mods should be so reactionary as to ban mention of said sources due to recent credit card problems. Those should be posted about and alternative safer ways to pay suggested. After all ADC had many happy customers from this board before either of us arrived here and still do as far as the medication itself goes. As far as ordering from India that's up to each and every adult here without our nanny mods opinion as a factor. Since neither of you I believe have ever ordered from them anyway.

Tony, I think your approach is right on.  If someone comes to the forum asking if anyone knows of a source where ED drugs can be obtained more cheaply than otherwise available, members who are interested in providing that info can email it to them offline.  Problem solved (but let the buyer beware).

I wish there were some way to organize all the guys who've had surgery for prostate cancer and who are dealing with ED issues to lobby their representatives in Congress to enact legislation forcing insurance companies to cover ED drugs when prescribed by a licensed physician to be used as rehab after prostate surgery.  That seems to me to be the real long-term solution....that and the fact that Viagra may become available as a generic in the relatively near future.

I don't think HW puts itself in a good legal position by directly or indirectly promoting an illegal activity.  Whether or not we think that activity should be illegal is irrelevant. 

Someone once said that human beings are blessed (or cursed) with a brain that is capable of rationalizing anything.

 

It is interesting how so many points that are completely valid can be brought up without hitting a couple of key points -

1) it is illegal to import drugs from outside the US. Yes, Customs will generally turn a blind eye when you go to Canada for the day and do a little extra shopping, but if the agent has had a very bad day, don't count on it. If they ask you what you have to declare, and you fail to mention items you purchased, you are technically a criminal just because of the false declaration, regardless of the items involved. Remember the Customs form you signed under penalty of law? The reason so few packages get snagged in shipping is simply that there are so many of them (yes, I know).

I have, on multiple instances, had Customs at the airport look at, count, and ask for Rx copies for the meds I have in my bag. It is their job to enforce the law.

Some people's jobs (ok, a lot of you guys are retired, I am not) depend on regular, clean security and credit checks. If you get bagged for illegal importation, your record is not clean anymore. Need I say what happens then?

2) Some drugs are bought from India by US wholesalers. In those cases, the proper US authorities actually have inspectors at the factories, and they must meet US rules for that production. That doesn't mean the inspectors are looking at the rest of the stuff being produced.

Granted, I have tried some "off shore" ED drugs. The Cialis substitute was about the same as the real guy. The Viagra substitue did nothing at all. So I can't say much, being only one set of pills from two manufacturers. They could all be rotten but one, or all great corporate citizens.

As to the cards, remember that every charge the company "writes off" just gets folded into the bad debts, so they may eventually block that merchant completely, but they will certainly raise fees and interest rates next year to cover the losses. One way or another, you "pay".

Tony, I agree with your position. I also agree with the many comments about excessive costs and arbitrary insurance rules that hit us hard.

I guess I tend to remember the legal side of it. Is it OK to run the Stop sign because no one is looking?

I can't help wondering if those who have expressed such indignation and consternation in this thread have actually READ Tony's post.  What can they possibly find to be unreasonable in what he has stated?

He has said that these offshore pharmacies will no longer be discussed by name in this forum.  There are solid reasons for this, including a mounting list of complaints by HW members that their credit cards have been fraudulently used as a result of doing business with these pharmacies.

He has said that if someone wants to provide information about these pharmacies, they can do so offline in private emails. 

He has pointed out that it's probably not a good thing for this site to promote actions which are clearly in violation of U. S. patent and customs laws.  The fact that a whole lot of folks choose to ignore those laws doesn't change the facts.

And, finally, he has warned all those who may have purchased drugs from these offshore pharmacies using a credit card that they should monitor their accounts for possible fraudulent activity.

Wow!  That's really outrageous, Tony.

I've never "thumbed my nose" at anyone or called them "un-American."  But I also have no illusions that once we all start deciding which laws we're going to obey, we're heading for big trouble. 

If Peter doesn't want this website implicitly or explicitly sanctioning an illegal activity, that's entirely his call and impossible to argue with. 

Those of us who want to do business with offshore pharmacies will continue to find our way to them, or they, in their desire to attract customers, will find their way to us.  This new HW policy seems entirely reasonable to me.