HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

PSA - another < question

Support Forums
>
Prostate Cancer
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 12/27/2012 3:40 AM (GMT 0)
Ok, my lab was doing the <.01 sensitivity and I get it done monthly. As of Oct. - lab started to go down to .xxx . Oct and Nov --- .006

Dec test comes back and is <.015

Is the lab changing something on me here? I'm confused and a bit anxious as you might imagine. Lab is LabCorp.
Posted 12/27/2012 4:00 AM (GMT 0)
the lab may be changing something - but it is that < - less than - sign that says it all ...
PSA<0.10 is undetectable - there is no such thing as an absolute zero -

-and we certainly can't detect you at all - PSA<0.05 is wonderful !!! - congrats on being in the zero Club

happy new year hugs,
Bronson
Posted 12/27/2012 6:00 AM (GMT 0)
Jerry,
LabCorp is using <.015 as their undetectable or lowest psa # according to another forum I just got off of--created a lot of unnecessary anxiety especially when the new perameters were not explained!! Honest--relax--congrats on your zero
Bill
Posted 12/27/2012 1:24 PM (GMT 0)
almost criminal.
Posted 12/27/2012 3:31 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks guys. I called Labcorp and was put on hold for about 10 mins. They came back on and said they track down to .01. I didn't have it in me to debate the .015. She was a nice lady, but I could tell it wouldn't have been pretty if I would have cross examined her.

It might be helpful if lab results printed something to the effect that we detect down to x. To flip flop back and forth between <.01, .xxx, <.015 is not good for trend analysis and my nerves.

Might need another post put there - Attention Lancorp users.
Posted 12/27/2012 9:59 PM (GMT 0)
 Jerry ,

I am confused as your first statement says .01, 015 then in your last paragraph you used the <.01 xxx,<.015.

There is a big difference with these 2 readings, wouldn't you agree?

I also called Labcorp RE: my husbands newest PSA which was done as an ultra sensitive PSA.

The comparision has been for 1 year, traditional PSA'a all <0.1 VS.the ultra sensitive 0.126 we just had done in Nov.

Labcorp couldn't (wouldn't) give me their reference interval range.

They referred me back to our Dr. who said he couldn't comment on this latest number of .0126.

I understand we need to stick with 1 test only but we have been advised by our local prostate support group that we needed the ultra sensitive test, so that's what we encouraged our Dr. to order.

Our Dr. didn't think it was necessary, but agreed to do so.

Who should be able to answer our question as to if my husband is still undectable as this will have everything to do with future therapys.

He by the way he has been on HT for 1 year.

Thanks,

Boogee

Posted 12/28/2012 12:19 AM (GMT 0)
Jerry,
Sometimes labs do odd things. My hospital was bought out, the "powers that be" decided to start reporting as <0.1 instead of the old standard of <0.04, same equipment, same lab techs (the calibration/maintenance guy for the equipment is a Jeeping buddy of mine) and same doctors.

The patients/doctors pitched a major bi*** over this and they now went to some standard other than <0.04 and my last 3 tests (every 3 months) have come back as 0.02, note no < there.

The first <0.1 was a shock as I get my results by phone and the nurse didn't have any information other than the number, the first 0.02 wasn't much of a shock, I figured the nurse just forgot the < after a meeting with my Uro I got used to the lack of a < but having 3 in a row is reassuring.

My bet is the lab had/has had some changes that shook up the standards reporting. The best thing to do would be to contact the lab and rattle a cage or two 'till you get a hard answer.
Posted 12/28/2012 12:43 AM (GMT 0)
Jerry, see my answer on the other PSA testing thread that is going on. Same answer would be posted here if it wasn't redundant. You have every reason to celebrate and be thrilled, and no reason to be worried or concerned. Your reading is about as close to the zero that doesn't exist as it could be.

david in sc
Posted 12/28/2012 1:32 AM (GMT 0)
Boogee,
I hope I can clear up your confusion. Trust me, I've been a bit confused myself the past 2 days.

I was trying to say that when I called LabCorp they told me they now track down to .01. Thus, if one is undetectable for them it would be <.01. This goes against 2 things I know about their test. My understanding as of 3 months ago was that they changed their testing to go down to 3 digits to the right of the decimal. So I guess an undetectable for this test would be <.001.

And I had 2 of those tests. October and November my test came back as .006. Fast foward to my last test results of <.015.

At some point LabCorp went from .xx to .xxx. It was around 3 months ago. I have a feeling that a lot of people questioned the .xxx readings or for some other reason, they still do the .xxx, but only down to the .015 as undetectable.

I certainly don't have all the answers on this one, but I will and I agree with David --- these ultrasensitive tests are a bunch of needless worry at times.

When was your husband's last blood taken? Last week? I think I gave blood on 12/18/12.

If I can help answer anything else about this, let me know.

Jerry L.

Post Edited (Jerry L.) : 12/27/2012 7:29:41 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/28/2012 9:43 AM (GMT 0)
Jerry, your experience seems to confirm a guess I made in another thread that some labs us guys use have recently bought new (more sensitive) machines.
The point being that the machine is perhaps giving us more details than we actually need.
As ever with PSA scores it is what happens over several months that tells us more, rather than one individual result.
Posted 12/28/2012 3:22 PM (GMT 0)
Jerry,

My husbands ultra sensitive was taken on Nov 28/2012.
I agree with Alf one test does not make a decision.
We are going back to traditional PSA testing and that will be done in March 2013.
This ultra sensitive test has really upset the applecart, but when tring to get an answer for their standard (Labcorp) they couldn't tell me the standard which I find unacceptable.
I will try calling again.

BOOGEE
Posted 12/28/2012 4:54 PM (GMT 0)
David - thanks and I think you are correct on what you say about all the needless testing and worrying. 

Boogee - It is unacceptable that LabCorp can't tell you what the standard is...probably because it keeps shifting.  If you get a solid answer from them, please let me know.

English Alf - You are right...trend is what important...

Daveshan - I'll rattle the cage after the new year. 

Gunfighter - thanks for the heads up...

 

Posted 12/28/2012 5:02 PM (GMT 0)
Jerry,

I will find an answer and let you know when I do.
Posted 12/28/2012 11:23 PM (GMT 0)
Jerry,
Don't hold this as gospal, but I spoke to a supervisor at Labcorp. in client services and she directed me to the Labcorp website.
click on:
I am a healthcare provider- test menu, type in search bar ultrasensitive psa
look at test # 140731 code 84153 prostate specific antigen (PSA), ultrasensitive 3rd gen.

The AUA defines biochemical recurrence as an initial PSA value >_ 0.20ng/ml followed by a subsequent confirmatory psa value >_ 0.20ng/ml.

My husband is not considered recurrent, as he never had an undectable psa after RP. The Labcorp supervisor couldn't be more specific RE: our reading but it appears that his PSA test (0.126) shows some antigen in his blood

Please let us know if you find anything more out.
Posted 12/29/2012 1:36 AM (GMT 0)
Boogee,

Thanks...I notice on the one ultrasensitive PSA test it says:

Male: 0.000-4.000 ng/mL (Note: This interval is not intended to be used as a reference for posttreatment follow-up and monitoring of patients.)

According to the American Urological Association (AUA), serum PSA should decrease and remain at undetectable levels after radical prostatectomy. The AUA defines biochemical recurrence as an initial PSA value ≥0.20 ng/mL followed by a subsequent confirmatory PSA value ≥0.20 ng/mL.

So I would buy that for months October and November when my PSA was .006.  It appears they have changed the range that is detectable to .015...thus it probably should read 0.015-4.000 ng/mL...whatever...

I did get an email from my doctor, but he didn't shed much light.  He basically explained what the less than sign means.  I asked him what the < means...and he said that my PSA was less than that number to the right.  For this, I spend good money....but, I probably didn't ask the most exact question in my email to him when I was frantically typing...

Oh well...enough about this I imagine.  I'm curious about your husband.  Has he ever had any radiation?  to the prostate bed, spot identified on F18?

Jerry

 

Posted 12/29/2012 3:14 AM (GMT 0)
Jerry,

As I stated my husband after RP never has undectable PSA at 6 weeks his pSA was 1.2 and went up from there quickly.

Everything I had read stated with the doubleing time, his tumor had already escaped and that was confirmed after the F-18 test. The Dr. at Stanford said not to do radiation to his spine unless it was bothering him with pain.

 We also went to UCSF for another opinion and The Dr. there thought he could benefit from radiation. So you see the dilema we all have with this monster.

Radiation to his spine may in his future, but for now if the HT is working we will stick with that. As far as radiation to his prostate bed, we didn't want to put him through that knowing it has already escaped.

We have been seeing our urologist for his Luprone injections, but had seen a med.oncologists who I think we will start working with after his next PSA in March.

It's like playing russian roulett as far as therapy is concerned, but we all have our own challenges with this horrible journey.

Good Luck

Posted 12/29/2012 1:45 PM (GMT 0)
Boogee-send me an email sometime. I'd like to share something with you.
Posted 12/29/2012 3:48 PM (GMT 0)
Jerry,

I can't use outlook express to send an EM. Do you have any other acct?

BOOGEE
Posted 12/29/2012 7:22 PM (GMT 0)
Can you email me at [email protected]
Posted 12/29/2012 7:58 PM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone, I had Robotic Assisted surgery on October 26. (See below) Six weeks after surgery my PSA was 0.08. Yesterday, it was 0.11. I also had an MRI, PET, CAT and Sonogram. I have an appointment with my oncologist on January 2 and suspect --- if they don't see anything, they will recommend radiation and HT. At Sloan, they look for a PSA under 0.05, preferably undetectable. Anyone whose had radiation and HT after surgery---I would love to hear about your experience. Thanks,
Fred Hill
Posted 12/29/2012 8:10 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Fred,

Welcome to Healing Well. Glad you found this site. To get more people to reply, I' d add a new post with a descriptive subject.

Plenty of guys out there that have done radiation and hormone therapy after surgery.

Jerry
Posted 7/13/2013 7:18 PM (GMT 0)
Got my psa result today and saw the same "switch" from < .006 to < .015 that Jerry reported. Also noticed LabCorp reported from their Denver lab (signed by a PhD) this time, vs all my prior post-RALP test results came from their Kansas City lab (and were signed by an M.D.). The physical blood draw was done in same city for all of them.

Apropos of nothing, I guess, but a little nerve racking. I am giving thanks today for this board and the other posters willing to share info like this. God bless all.

Robert
Posted 7/14/2013 3:19 PM (GMT 0)
Robert,

Thanks for the heads up and comparison. Yes, this board is a great place for support and information...have a great day...

Jerry
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply