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Why is nobody interested when you heal yourself

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Posted 1/12/2013 1:33 PM (GMT 0)
Hi I'm 64, back in November 2011, I had a prostate biopsy which showed 10 - 60% cancer in 7 of the 12 core samples all Gleeson score of 6(3+3). I declined all the offers of radiation, robots and knives, 'cause I believed I could influence what's happening in My body. Doctors put the fear of God into me, family and friends accused me of being irresponsible and not accepting the reality.
In December 2012 I received the results of an MRI scan which showed nothing, no cancer, no lesions, the doctor even commented how healthy and unblemished my prostate looked.
I've done many things including Budwig (flex oil and cottage cheese), Reiki, sunshine, jogging, Chinese herbs. I know I'll have to stay under surveillance for the rest of my life, but I'm confident today that I have the tools and state of mind to stay healthy.
There's something blatantly wrong when conventional medicine only knows to treat the symptoms and not the cause. None of the doctors were in the least interested in knowing how I cured myself, all they could say was well done, keep doing what you're doing - Why?
Posted 1/12/2013 2:07 PM (GMT 0)
Healerwithin,

Congratulations on what you have accomplished!

I feel more and more low risk prostate cancer guys are doing exactly what you are doing ... not undertaking radical treatment but carefully watchiing to see if the cancer progresses and making lifestyle changes ... Active Survelience (AS) is what it is called.

Thanks for sharing your history. i am sure it will help some of the new guys looking at this sight for help on making treatment decisions.
Posted 1/12/2013 2:13 PM (GMT 0)
Healer, congratulations on doing such a great job keeping yourself healthy...well done.

Perhaps doctors steer away from alternative medicine is because there is one essential ingredient to its efficacy: the patient must believe in the what they are doing. I imagine that doctors hesitate because if they encourage alternative medicine and it doesn't work, what then? Not every patient is able to put their faith in alternative treatment that involves a total change in lifestyle and mindset. I have a friend who is undergoing chemo right now for lung cancer. On day 2 of her first round of treatment, the side effects kicked in and she was sick as the proverbial dog for a week after. Another friend went through chemo for breast cancer...she started consuming noni juice and doing visual realization exercises. Not only did she get through chemo with minimal side effects but she is cancer free for the past few years. My friend going through lung cancer treatment is not someone who subscribes to herbal/alternative treatments - doesn't believe in them - so for her, they probably would not do a darn thing other than put a large hole in her wallet.

I think the fact that your medical team seems to encourage you to continue what you've been doing is a sign that they believe alternative treatments can help if YOU believe they can.
Posted 1/12/2013 2:25 PM (GMT 0)
Congratulations!

You asked "why?" I think you also touched upon the answer. First, not all cases are alike, and while many men who are aggressively treated truly don't need aggressive treatment, others do. But moreover, we see here over and over that e en when faced with disease (or recurrent disease) many men are simply too set-in-their-ways to consider the changes to their lifestyle which could (for many) keep the disease well under control, as you have done. They'd rather "take a pill," so to speak.

Change is difficult.

Keep up the good work.
Posted 1/12/2013 2:46 PM (GMT 0)
wow, hey everybody is interested but everybodies cancers are different, Metasisis is an unknown mechinism to this day. I believe in holistic over patent medicine any day.
Hopefully after my biopsy wednesday I'll have some options?
Posted 1/12/2013 3:03 PM (GMT 0)
I have seen (and know of) men who have small amounts of G 6 disease and who have lowered their psa, some significantly, using diet and supplements. This does not mean that they healed their cancer. Cure is another word and another matter.
You do not say the reason for the biopsy, and whether that reason has been affected.
The doctors said "Well done. Keep doing what you are doing." I say that is support enough.
Posted 1/12/2013 3:19 PM (GMT 0)
I thought MRI scans very seldom showed anything in low risk men?

Let us know how your next biopsy goes.
Posted 1/12/2013 5:11 PM (GMT 0)
I was planning on doing AS for awhile since CaP is very slow growing. But my second biopsy came back a 7 ( up from a 6 ) three months after the first. It was probably a 7 to begin with, but a biopsy only takes a sample and probably missed the 7 the first time by the sloppy uro who did the first biopsy. So, the 7 triggered treatment for me ( CyberKnife).

When are you planning on having a second biopsy ? BTW, it's sometimes a good idea to have you slides looked at by a recognized top-notch path. lab, if the first one wasn't.

Good Luck on your journey. You need to do what you feel is right for you - and take responsibility for the results. You are the decider, not the uro. , after all.
Posted 1/12/2013 5:21 PM (GMT 0)

Healer,

While I am happy for you and hope you truly have cured yourself but an MRI is not proof of a cure.  In fact even a biopsy would not prove you do not have cancer.  Time may tell if you do.  But you asked a question and I would like to give my opinion as to why doctors are not interested in your cure.  To prove something works engineers, scientists, and doctors alike try to do something in a controlled environment and have statistically similar results.  For instance doctor could try a procedure on 100 patients that all have stage T1c cancer with Gleason scores of less than 7, a PSA less than 10, and no more than 2 positive cores out of 12 with each having less than less than 50% involvement.  That’s the controlled environment.  If 95% of his patients are cancer free at 10 years and 95% of patients that went untreated have cancer that has progressed, the doctor can say with some certainty that his procedure works.  I am an engineer not a doctor but I use a similar method in proving the validity of a solution.  It has to be repeatable under similar conditions.  One data point does not make a trend – it is just a lone dot on a sheet of paper.

Again I am happy for you and hope you are cured.

David

Posted 1/12/2013 6:08 PM (GMT 0)
Careful here- first time contributor with a miracle cure makes me more than a little skeptical- probably a promotion for Budwig- whatever that is-
Posted 1/12/2013 7:55 PM (GMT 0)
Healer,

The PSA is a good marker once cancer is found. What have been your PSAs up to this point. Is there a trend downward?

Doctors treat more than symptoms, but you're right in that you have to treat the whole body.

Thanks,
Jerry
Posted 1/12/2013 7:57 PM (GMT 0)
I'm also skeptical of first time posters with exciting stories to tell.
The Budwig protocol however, can be obtained on the Internet for free.

Maybe a C11 PET scan instead of the MRI might be more convincing. Or another biopsy.
And as was mentioned, a PSA history would be informative also.
.
A lot of people here are interested in therapies outside the box. I take a lot of stuff myself.
Posted 1/12/2013 9:10 PM (GMT 0)
Cured yourself? Are you now cancer free? I've read that Gleason 6 is very slow growing and might never progress outside the prostate. As others have stated, we'd need some test results.

For me, when dx with cancer I never would consider alternative medicine as a tx.

Best of health,
Buddy
Posted 1/12/2013 9:28 PM (GMT 0)
A lot of outside the box stuff is considered Complementary treatments or Integrative Oncology.

They could be done with low grade cancer, maybe, as part of Active Surveillance.

They could be done after primary treatment to delay the return or retard the progression of the cancer.

But there are also a lot of people hyping miracles cures.
Posted 1/12/2013 9:36 PM (GMT 0)
i found out last year that my chronic hepatitis that i acquired almost 40 years ago is "gone".  i still test positive for hepatitis B and C but there is no virus and a biopsy shows a normal, healthy liver.  in the past i have been hospitalized for hepatitis and an earlier biopsy showed chronic disease.

how'd i do it?  hellifiknow.  i stayed clean for more than two decades, quit smoking, always exercise and floss regularly.  but still my case is an outlier and i will continue to monitor my liver functions.

ed

 

Posted 1/12/2013 9:36 PM (GMT 0)
Trying to really understand what you have said. You had a prostate biopsy, and had positive proof of prostate cancer in 7 out of 12 cores, with what would be understood to be a lot of cancer in the cores. A biopsy of that magnitude would rarely make a major mistake.

Now you said you had a MRI that shows no evidence of cancer in your prostate. I agree with another poster, that it would be difficult at best, for a MRI scan to show an "all clear" of having an established cancer. Why was the MRI ordered? Was it for some other malady or sympton?

As far as the "steps" you took in between, including supplements, I won't issue my standard opinion, other to say, that I nor my doctors are into such method. Each person has to do what they feel is best for themselves.

Is it possible the biopsy was read wrong? Yes, but that would have been a rare and major mistake with whomever read the cores.

Did you simply have a "miracle" of sorts? I will only say, its not up to me to say that's not possible. Have you told the entire story, or is there something else missing from it?

You have a curious case and situation going on, would love to know more about it in the future. And I hope that you really don't have PC lurking around inside you.

david
Posted 1/12/2013 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
OK, I must be missing something here. Are you saying that because an MRI showed no cancer that you are "cured" of the prostate cancer that was found in more than half the cores taken during your biopsy?

Isn't it a given that an MRI would not show cancer in a case such as yours, that your prostate would, indeed, look "clean" on an MRI scan?

I don't want to be a downer here, but it just seems to me that it's unlikely you've accomplished anything, or at least that you can be sure that you have. I strongly suspect that another biopsy would show just as much cancer as the previous one, and unfortunately, perhaps even more.

If some of you guys who are congratulating Healerwithin on what he has accomplished can explain to me just what he has actually accomplished, I'm all ears.

Perhaps the cancer will never be worse than it is; perhaps it will never breach the prostate capsule; perhaps there's no Gleason 7 or worse cancer in there that went undetected by the biopsy. Can someone please tell me how any of that is "knowable"?

Post Edited (clocknut) : 1/12/2013 2:50:34 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/12/2013 9:45 PM (GMT 0)

clocknut said...
OK, I must be missing something here. Are you saying that because an MRI showed no cancer that you are "cured" of the prostate cancer that was found in more than half the cores taken during your biopsy?

Isn't it a given that an MRI would not show cancer in a case such as yours, that your prostate would, indeed, look "clean" on an MRI scan?

I don't want to be a downer here, but it just seems to me that it's unlikely you've accomplished anything, or at least that you can be sure that you have. I strongly suspect that another biopsy would show just as much cancer as the previous one, and unfortunately, perhaps even more.

If some of you guys who are congratulating DataDavid on what he has accomplished can explain to me just what he has actually accomplished, I'm all ears.

Perhaps the cancer will never be worse than it is; perhaps it will never breach the prostate capsule; perhaps there's no Gleason 7 or worse cancer in there that went undetected by the biopsy. Can someone please tell me how any of that is "knowable"?

Clocknut,

OK, I am confused.  Who congratulated me and what did I accomplish???

David

Posted 1/12/2013 9:45 PM (GMT 0)
Clock - OP is healerwithin, not DataDavid. Typo?
Posted 1/12/2013 9:51 PM (GMT 0)
Yep, typo. Sorry, corrected it. I apologize, DataDavid
Posted 1/12/2013 9:52 PM (GMT 0)
Clocknut,
No problem. If that was my biggest problem I would sing and dance!!

David
Posted 1/12/2013 10:20 PM (GMT 0)
My understanding is that MRI's only show evidence once significant nodules have formed. If a biopsy showed cancer in 7 out of 12 core samples, it is highly doubtful that healthy living could make it disappear in about a years time. In fact, from what I understand my MRI showed no evidence of cancer but the next biopsy showed that it was still there.

Sorry to be a wet-blanket but it is better to be informed. On the other hand, keep up the healthy living - it can only do you good.
Posted 1/13/2013 9:15 AM (GMT 0)
Welcome to a new guy.
but am I allowed to be a bit sceptical?
I'm sorry, if the first biopsy was correct, then even though I'm not medically qualified to call this one I'm still very doubtful if you have dealt with the problem.
I understood that an MRI scan would not show anything at an early stage.
And what is missing from your stats are the follow-up PSA numbers and the results of any follow up biopsies.
Posted 1/13/2013 3:25 PM (GMT 0)
Sounds like most of us are on the same page here, there must be more to the story that we aren't seeing or getting.

david
Posted 1/13/2013 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
Ed,

Do you take the 8 oz or 16 oz hellifiknow? Or do you take the supplement extract?

Jerry L
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