NEW! Gat Goren, Part 4. Now with PAE and LUTS!

This thread has been used earlier to discuss iodine suppositories for BPH. One member - Martin Victor - mentioned a German product called 'prostalin' giving a URL link. That link did not work. Searching prostalin on Google showed at least one other product with that name but no useful link for the product containing iodine. There were traces of the product only suggesting that it is no longer available. Perhaps if Martin is still following this thread he can check whether I am right.

I will start a new thread on 'suppositories for BPH' to discuss this subject further.

Nosheds:

Good luck on your initiative. You may need it. This is always a problem on patient-oriented Internet forums. I suspect that it always will be a problem. Because of various practical reasons.

The forum is about 30 pages long so far, which is quite manageable. I read another forum which is 250 pages long. Now THAT'S a lot! 30 pages is pretty manageable. When I was doing my own research in Fall 2010, there were very few (actually none, if memory serves) useful Internet posts other than a couple on the clinic's own web site. Back then, folks complained about the dearth of patient reports. So I guess it's a sign of progress when folks start complaining about a surfeit of posts.

My own experience broadly corroborates the research the clinic has published in peer-reviewed journals. You might want to start from the published papers (available on the clinic's web site). I think the papers are excellent.

Anyway, welcome to the board, and best of luck to you.

Post Edited (Chicago Dave) : 11/29/2013 5:11:19 PM (GMT-7)

Dave,

thank you for the support.
is there any way I can email you?

nosheds

Possible replacement for Flomax type products without side effects: The company that sells this product is in the United Kingdom. Orders can be done directly or through the web. This is an excellent company recommended by Prof. Ben L. Pfeifer, the leading medical doctor and proponent of alternative therapies for curing prostate cancer. He is well recognized in Europe for the Pfeifer Protocol which dramatically reduces PSA levels.

http://www.healthy.co.uk/products/ryepollenextract.html

Flowease™ is a premium quality rye flower pollen extract which contains specific phytonutrient combinations that can help older men and women if they need to visit the toilet more often - especially during the night.

After the age of 40, urination for some men can become increasingly difficult. As a result, many trips to the bathroom both day and night become necessary, reducing quality of life and disturbing sleep. Older women can also have problems with urination for different reasons.

Provided your doctor has ruled out potential disease-causes for this problem, Flowease can provide the phyto-nutrients necessary to help our bodies maintain bladder health and stability. It is based on over forty years of research into flower pollen and was first identified in the '60s by Gosta Jonsson, a professor at the Swedish University of Lund. Since then, research into the benefits of flower pollen has grown considerably, and it has been found to contain over a hundred different nutritional components including: minerals, trace elements, amino acids, liponic acids, nucleic acids, enzymes and anti-bacterial substances.

Ira: If you fill out your email address in your profile, I can contact you. But yes, Dr. Gat spent a lot of time with me the first year.

Please ask Peter for it. Ira

IMHO, it's several things, to wit:

- The GG procedure isn't easy to teach/learn.
- The GG procedure doesn't require any "Big Pharma" intervention, vis a vis supplying any "product"; hence, they'll be no interest in funding any studies from THEM.
- PAE may be easier to learn.
- PAE seems to give quantifiable results sooner.

I've done several hundred hours of research on both procedures - my personal opinion is that GG is "more right" for some men, while PAE is "more right" for others. In my own case, I'm strongly leaning towards GG, even though I would have to pay the entire procedure out of pocket. I'm 57 years old, have had BOTH superficial varicose veins stripped from my legs (right leg in '96, left leg in 2010), have had numerous hemorrhoids, and have a KNOWN enlarged prostate from a whole body scan in 2008; current PSA ~5.0, and S-L-O-W-L-Y climbing each year. My own history of "vein issues" makes me think that it's EXTREMELY likely that a vein valve problem is contributing to my own BPH, and I feel like the GG procedure is "more right" as a solution; from where *I* sit, I'm a GG "Poster Child", LOL...

If ever there was a "medical mystery" in the human body, it's the prostate! I'm hoping that Dr. Gat will accept me for this procedure in Q1 of 2014, and will be contacting them soon.

Hi Guys,

As I posted earlier, there is a giant PAE double blind study accepting patients right now at major US teaching hospitals. They are determined to have the PAE procedure replace the TURP as the gold standard prostate operation. The woman who is running the whole study said they expect that within two years, if everything goes as expected, it will be covered by Medicare. The trouble with their study is that half the people will be getting the TURP and half the PAE and you will not know which.
I do not know the advantages of the GG over PAE but it seems that collapsing arteries would not be as drastic as collapsing veins.
That said, the GG seems almost exactly like the varicocele fertility operation and GG are charging about 5 or 6 times the going rate if you have to pay out of pocket although many people can get the fertility operation under their medical policies.

Thanks for clarifying that, Michael! My brow was really furrowed for a moment there.

{Edited} By the way, one nice thing about the HW Forum is the fact that one can edit one's old posts...until the thread gets long and Peter locks it.

Post Edited (Chicago Dave) : 12/5/2013 5:16:13 PM (GMT-7)

Michael, thanks for the funny "what the heck is going on here" initial reading.
Regarding the upcoming double-blind study, it's too bad it isn't between PAE and GG. We already have loads of TURP patients whose results could be polled.

By the way, Ganzman noted that the GG procedure might not be "easy to teach/learn." If that were the case (and it might very well be the case), just where will that procedure be once Drs. Gat (who I believe is at least 70 years old) and Goren (who I believe is in his mid-60s) go into retirement?

Ira

Thanks, Dave. Any indication why doctors practicing in America are not performing the GG procedure?

I believe I may be the only poster on here that had the PAE done.
Dr Bagla performed the procedure and it was covered under my insurance.
It was successful in that it reduced my prostate from over 55 down to about 34 or so.
It was not successful, however, in relieving my symptoms.
In May I started having to cath to relieve residual urine volumes.
I could only use an 8 or 10 catheter without pain.
Procedure done on June 2, I believe.
By mid-July I could easily use a 14 catheter with no pain.
In October, I still had to cath 3 times a day.
I then was recommended to go to a doctor in Birmingham for consult via my Uro who
did not feel comfortable in determining my next step.

I had 3 large diverticulum that together were as large or larger than my bladder.
My uro felt that I had a narrow bladder neck.\
the Birmingham doctor, however, felt my main problem was diverticulum and that even if I had bladder neck surgery my diverticulum would still be a long term problem.

I had the diverticulum removed on 11/18. Very painful surgery. I have a 7 in cut from navel to pubic bone.
One of my ureters had to be cut and moved due to the fact that it went through one of the diverticulum.
A stint was place in it to keep it open while healing.
Unfortunately, when I went back on 12/4 to have the stint removed, they could not. It seems a large hematoma had formed which pushed my bladder to one side of my body. Removing the stint was cancelled until the hematoma dissolves. I am to go back on 12/30.
Since surgery, the inflammation has caused me to experience difficulty in passing a 14 catheter, but that is improving.
I am still cathing, but obviously the residual volume is much less without the diverticulum.
I am urinating better now also, albeit, with difficulty.

My next step? I don't know until I go back on 12/30.

Also, my prostate has large median lobe which is the hardest to shrink from what I've read.
My urethra is more open, though, but still not adequate.
My next step is to either:
1. have bladder neck surgery..... MD says he doesn't think this is the best option.
2. Incise the Median lobe to relieve some pressure. Likely next course.
3. Proscar.

I am ready to do option 2.
Option 3 takes a long time to see results, and option 1 has a very likely chance for retrograde ejaculation.

The PAE procedure was simple and if your type of prostate enlargement does not involve a large median lobe, it is liable to work for you.