NEW! Gat Goren, Part 4. Now with PAE and LUTS!

rphguy:

Sorry as well to hear about the difficulties and hope all will be resolved for the best soon!

I have one diverticulum i'm schedule to have removed via robotic surgery most likely in january.

I spoke with dr bagla and might possibly do the PAE procedure after that.

Still trying to find someone on the left coast but so far unsuccessful.

I'm curious why you didn't do the surgery via robotics as it is supposed to be less painful/invasive than open surgery?

I do need to explore the 'median lobe' size before the PAE to determine if that's a problem.

It seems to me...urologist in general, could all do with a more precise diagnosis per/patient rather than just determining someone has BPH...and needs this or that procedure. In your case, if you'd know about the median lobe issue you might not have gone with the PAE...what's your opinion?

rphguy: Thanks for clarifying your bottom-line evaluation of your PAE procedure.

http://magnusprime.com/ms/clinical/trial13.htm

http://www.graminex.com/graminex/file/Flower_Pollen_Extract_and_its_ability_to_reduce_symptoms_of_benign_prostate_hyperplasia.pdf

Suggest everyone with BPH read the above clinical surveys and article. I have explored numerous websites and generally there are 5 star ratings on rye pollen for the reduction in size of the prostate, nutrition and lowering of inflammation. This includes for those like myself who have mid lobe extension into the bladder. I am now 16 months out since doing the Gat Goren procedure. Slight improvement, but retention of urine and urgency has not improved and I believe the flower pollen extract can improve bladder function (along with the prostate) which is half the battle.

Rphguy,

Glad to hear of your positive steps forward. Not as hoped, but seems to be going in the right direction. What type of procedure will your doctor use to reduce the median lobe (i.e, open surgery, laproscopic, or something else)?

My uro wants a go at reducing my median lobe which protrudes into the bladder near the bladder mouth. When I had the Greenlight laser 18 months ago, he didn't have the opportunity to address the protruding median lobe because my prostate was over 120g. and he claims he removed 70g. without getting to the median lobe.

To all forum members,

It's been a while since I posted so here's an update. It's a testament to more things that can go wrong.

Starting 11 days ago, I spent a week in the hospital after hematuria caused me to pee massive amounts of very thick bright red blood and purplish clots the size of small oysters. It started off as just pink to burgundy urine for a few hours alternating with yellow urine for a few hours on Wednesday and Thursday morning. I wasn't too concerned because I had a uro appointment on Friday.

Late Thursday night I inserted my own foley cath when I went into full retention. But after midnight the foley clotted closed. The blood was so thick it clotted the foley cath instantly. While the ambulance was summoned I was in the shower inserting the cath with the bag detached, and removing it and blowing out the coagulated blood about 10 times. The blood was as thick as pudding.

For four days in the Hospital they used a three way foley and irrigated me with a total of 40 three liter bags of saline trying to clear up the clots. I passed out on the third day when my hemoglobin dropped to 6. Got 3 pints of blood and had emergency surgery last Monday morning with General anesthetic as they wouldn't use the IV sedation. My uro used a cystoscope to clean out all the clots and cauterize 3 bleeders on my urethra, bladder and prostate, and widen the bladder mouth a bit. No definitive reason for the incident could be determined. Blood cultures may provide an answer. My clotting factor was good. None of the labs showed anything. After surgery I got 5 more pints of blood (8 total) to raise my hemoglobin to 10 (16 is normal), was irrigated with 20 more 3 liter bags of saline and was released on Thursday with a foley, and an irrigation tool (looks like a very large plastic hypodermic about the size of a turkey baster, holding 60ml. of liquid, which I used a half dozen times on Thursday, Friday and Saturday to suction black dried clots out of the blocked foley. Thank God for the suction tube or I would have been at square one.

Yesterday (Sunday) the urine in my foley bag finally turned yellow. I've had 1 to 2 minute long bladder spasms about once an hour due to the foley for the past 11 days. I walk around looking at the second hand on my watch counting down from two minutes while grunting and trying to breathe deeply about once an hour day and night. I see my uro tomorrow for a trial removal of the foley and to talk about possible GL in January for the median lobe.

Strangely, I was one of a minority who did not get retro with the GL. My uro said he uses a procedure to leave a flap or shelf of prostate above the ejaculatory duct which is supposed to direct the semen down the urethra, and in my case must have worked. Leaving that area might also be why my GL didn't get great results. Other than not going into retention, all my other symptoms of urgency, frequency and a poor stream were still present at least 50%.

Also found out that two shots of morphine did nothing for me (a strong beer would have been better), Delaudid worked for about an hour, but after the second shot I got the heaves over the next three hours, so stopped that. Vicodin didn't do much to ease the pain of the bladder spasms either, so I stopped taking it before leaving the hospital.

To all forum members regarding results of trials, etc., the GL (which has a lot of dissapointed patients on many forums)
has stellar results, far exceeding PAE , in all categories of improved stream, reduced prostate volume and reduced post void residual. Makes me wonder if I just was unlucky or if the thousands of negative posts (including mine) are just due to the massive number of procedures. The group that makes the GL laser reports that over 500,000 GL procedures have been performed worldwide.

Post Edited (Bob_NJ) : 12/16/2013 7:48:50 PM (GMT-7)

PS: To Bob_NJ. Sorry to read of the rough time you've been having. Hope you get some quick relief and healing.

Mike,

Thanks. Hope your routine provides some lasting benefits as well.

Michael Daner said...
PS: To Bob_NJ. Sorry to read of the rough time you've been having. Hope you get some quick relief and healing.

Bob,...RPH guy...Happy to hear things are going better. God must have punished man when he put the urethra between lobes of the prostate.

Dave....I am taking 6 Pollen Aid Capsules a day by Graminex. Directions call for 3, but I spoke to the company and there are no side effects. Most posters who have given this product a 5 star rating see results within 3-6 months with 3 capsules. I also take 3 capsules of Life Extension Ultra Natural Prostate. The problem with many of these prostate formulations that include flower pollen extract (Secale cereale) is they do not put enough product into one pill. For example, Life Extension uses 252 mg for a 2 capsule serving. The Graminex Company suggests 1500 mg a day to see results. I am taking 3000 mg per day. Based upon much clinical research and affirmation by numerous users, I feel very confident that this product does all it says it will do including shrinking the prostate, and increasing bladder performance. Of course, you will not hear about this from your urologist...

Martin:

Thanks for the info. Flower pollen is in my queue of supplements to be tried. It's a long queue.

It's not hard to find other supposedly effective supplements. Several are discussed on the pages of EarthClinic (http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/enlarged-prostate-prostatitis.html), including a European herbal remedy: Small-Flowered Willow Herb. It's recommended by Maria Treben, a venerable European herbalist. There are testimonials for it on EarthClinic and at http://www.monteagleherbs.com/aprostate.shtml. The last is a Canadian grower than sells it, so they are not exactly disinterested. A close relationship between prostatitis and BPH...and we've heard that before. The Beta-sitosterol content of the herb is emphasized, so maybe its mode of action is similar to those of other remedies we've discussed on this board.

I have no idea if it would work at all for those of us who already had the GG procedure and have smaller prostates with better circulation. I bet a lot of these remedies work by counteracting the effects of high-level of testosterone in the circulation of the prostate. Remedies that work this way probably wouldn't have much of an effect. Perhaps something targeted to the bladder might be more relevant. And there's always the possibility that herbs target prostate and bladder at the same time.

Martin, I guess we're sort of pioneers in the treatment of lower-abdominal issues after GG.

-dave

P.P.: I have a weakness for corny herbal lore and legends, which harken back to simpler times. Everyone, please forgive me for posting the following long extract from the late herbalist's website (http://www.mariatrebenherbs.com/?pid=55&sid=72:SMALL-FLOWERED-WILLOW-HERB):
QUOTE:
I was a young woman, when my father-in-law, in his prime, died from hypertrophy of the prostate gland. A neighbour who knew a lot about herbs showed me the Small Flowered Willow-herb and said: "Had your father-in-law drunk the tea made from this plant he would still be alive today. Take note of this plant! You are still a young woman and you might be able to help a lot of people." But as things go when one is young and healthy, I did not trouble myself about it. Not so my mother! She gathered Willow-herb every year and was able to help many people suffering from bladder or kidney disorders. The curative effect is so great that, often suddenly, all complaints caused by prostate disorder disappear. There were cases, where men were to have an operation, the urine came only in drops and 1 cup of this tea brought relief. Of course, the tea has to be drunk throughout a period to bring about complete recovery.

Through my mother I heard of a patient who had undergone 3 operations for clinically diagnosed cancer of the bladder and who was in a sad state. I recommended Willow-herb tea. Later I heard from his doctor that he had recovered. This happened at a time when I did not concern myself with medicinal herbs. But this case had a lasting effect on me. My mother often told me not to forget to gather Willow-herb should She be gone one day.
In 1961 my dear mother died and I forgot to gather Willow-herb that summer. In the surgery of my doctor I learned that an acquaintance of mine was in hospital with cancer of the bladder. I thought of the Willow-herb. The doctor, although not against herbs, said that in this case, nothing could help. But I had not gathered any Willow-herb and noticed with dismay that it was now the middle of October, everything would be wilted and dried up. Nevertheless I went to a place where I had seen them flowering in the summer. I found only some yellowed stems which I picked and cut finely. This I sent to the man's wife. She gave him 2 cups a day, 1 cup in the morning and 1 cup in the evening. 14 days later, the doctor rang me up to say that this man was feeling much better. "Well, your herbs help!", he said laughingly. From that time on I have been able to help hundreds and hundreds of people.
UNQUOTE

Ah, such uplifting stories. But best not to swallow them whole....

Post Edited (Chicago Dave) : 12/18/2013 6:37:09 PM (GMT-7)

Hi Thunder! Thanks for the update. Glad to hear the good news.

Thunder: Well, darn if I know either. But I bet it's just a temporary aggravation and your worries will be groundless. I don't see how anyone could permanently re-open sealed ISV's.

Thunder: But it feels okay when you're lie down for a long time, right? Even better than standing?

Thunder: I'm out of ideas. But as long as there is progress, I don't think I'd worry too much about it. Even slow progress--month over month--is still a good sign.

"For the last several days I have been peeing like the proverbial racehorse."
Congratulations, Bob. Pardon the pun--What a relief!