Gat Goren, PAE, LUTS, Part 5

There is a Doctor Bagla in the US that does the PAE if I remember right for about 7000. He has done around 100 of them over the past year. I set up an appointment over the phone to talk with him. They charged me $75 for the consultation. The Doctor sounded very professional and knew his stuff. They wanted me to do an MRI. They have not sent me the prescription for it and I am leaning toward seeing Gat Goren. I pasted his office email signature below (without the email). Also here is a PAE study I found on the internet.

http://evtoday.com/2014/03/24/study-supporting-prostate-artery-embolization-presented-at-sir

The way I look at it is the PAE leaves you with a lot a pellets inside your body hmmm that worries me. Whereas Gat Goren if it is successful is the least invasive but the most expensive. And Liam if your still out there I would like to communicate directly about your experience with Gat Goren. I can activate my email if I know your looking :). I don't want more spam so I don't want to leave it on long.

CardioVascular Interventional Radiology
Inova Alexandria Hospital
4320 Seminary Road
Alexandria, VA 22304
Ph: (703) 504-7960
Fx: (703) 504-3287

Post Edited (Jeff@57) : 9/29/2014 3:06:42 PM (GMT-6)

Jeff: Inositol from Biotics Research, sustained release magnesium from Jigsaw Health and Perfusia (sustained release L arginine from Thorne Research.

I am definitely sold on Inositol for sleep. I take 1,000 mg A.M. and 500 during lunch. Sleep is fabulous with great REM dreams. What is best about it, is the ability to fall back to sleep.

I am still experimenting with sustained release magnesium and L arginine. I do know that magnesium can be a diuretic and the last thing one would want with BPH. But both relax the smooth muscles of the urinary system, so it is worth a try rather than flomax. Being sustained release, the diuretic side effect might be minimized.

I also recently started Prostate Health from Young Living Essential Oils. So much research has been done on saw palmetto and pumpkin seed oil. I believe most formulations are worthless. But I am intrigued with Young Living Essential oils given their knowledge and experience in producing oil extracts that are potent. Prostate Health also includes an oil blend of lavender, myrtle, geranium, fennel and peppermint. Essential oils are very powerful in reducing inflammation.

Liamireland said...
It will be 4 weeks on Tuesday 7th October and I am thrilled with how this is going.

Wow. You're getting amazingly quick results. I didn't get any results at all for 3-1/2 months.

Here's to you, and hoping it keeps up!

Hi,
Just joined this forum. I have been looking at PAE & then come across Gat Goren. I have low grade prostate cancer Gleeson 3+3 & have been on active surveillance since 2011 & the cancer has not grown or changed since then. I have also suffered from BPH for sometime & have to get up once sometimes twice every night which is annoying. Given the cancer am I a candidate for either PAE or Gat Goren? Be very grateful to hear people's views. Thanks.

Peter,

Why not email Gat's clinic directly and ask for his opinion? I think that the GG procedure has successfully been used to treat some early and low-grade cases of PC, but I don't remember the details. According to Dr. Gat, non-working ISV valves causes poor circulation in the prostate/testes region, which in turn causes elevated testosterone levels and sometimes BPH or PC. (Forgive me for giving you a super-condensed version of Gat's theories.)

I have no idea whether you're a good candidate for this procedure, but in a perfect world, the GG procedure might treat your BPH and PC at the same time.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

========================================

Michael,

Thanks for the update. I'm glad someone on the board is getting the Urolift. Keep us posted. I look forward to hearing how it goes.

To Michael Daner. Sounds great. Hope that you have good results and please keep us posted even if the results aren't so great.

This was posted as a new post by Martin Victor. I suspect he meant it for this Gat Goren thread so have pasted it here and locked the other thread.

Jim

In my continuous quest to discover the cause of an enlarged prostate, I uncovered this in a 2007 post from a body building site. Surprisingly, many of these people are well versed in the field of hormone modulation especially a Dr. Dana Houser. Since 2007, a product called Activate Extreme has been using the active ingredient in Stinging Nettle Root to increase Free T and lower estradiol. The active ingredient is called Divanil for short. Dr. Houser has come up with a reason as to the mechanics of BPH and how it causes problems in men that in many respects disputes traditional medical orthodoxy. DHT is not the problem as much as high levels of estradiol from SBGH.

"A condition known as benign prostatic hyperplasia (which is a misnomer, but the medical literature references it as well as hypertrophy interchangeably - the latter of which is more appropriate by definition) or BPH for short plagues most men as we grow older. That's right, this paradoxical organ does the exact opposite of most organs as we age - it GROWS! By age 40, 10% of men have some degree of prostate enlargement. But at age 50, the figure is 50%, and it keeps increasing precipitously as the years pass. Why is this cause for concern?

The male urethra, the tube through which urine passes, is encircled by the prostate gland. As the prostate grows, it pinches the urethra, causing a whole slew of symptomatic effects that constitute what we look for in BPH. Nighttime urination and inability to empty the bladder happen to be the two most cardinal symptoms you might see.

Now let's throw a curve ball into the equation, shall we? Let's say you enjoy a life of increased androgen use (hmmmm, sounding familiar?). Now, the potential for our scenario to worsen is heightened, but I'll get to why this is. If you have an increased level of aromatic transformation - this appears the tie-in and to a bit less of a degree the conversion to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).

The nettle prevention mechanism lies in its ability to prevent estrogen from causing excess prostate enlargement. You hear a lot about DHT, because we have a pharmaceutic route to promote in our propaganda platform, but the finger of guilt has long-since moved toward a combo of DHT and estrogen, and estrogen should be taking the brunt of the finger pointing.

(NOW HERE IS REAL IMPORTANT PART)

One of the estrogens - estradiol (E2) in order to enlarge the prostate, it has to first stick to a protein called sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) while this protein is attached to the prostate cell membrane. This linkage between E2 and SHBG on the cell membrane then directs another protein called insulin-like growth factor (IGF) to stimulate the growth of the prostate cells, causing prostate enlargement. Nettle might stop E2 from doing this in a couple of ways.

Some aqueous lignans from nettle root can significantly bind to SHBG and prevent it from anchoring to its realm of activity, the cell membrane, at least in TEST TUBE STUDIES. One nettle lignan in particular, and the major active that has offered ActivaTe Xtreme its major sought-after role and ActivaTe before it, 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran (DIVANIL) binds extraordinarily well."

MY NOTE: Since Dr. Houser has written this, it is well known that Divanil from Stinging Nettle Root is a major increaser of free T by unbinding it from SHBG. When free T is increased, levels of estradiol actually go down. What happens to DHT?? Apparently it is not that important in the equation for BPH compared to E2.

This might contradict with the Gat Goren thesis that it is excess DHT bathing the receptors of the prostate cells from pressure of a mechanical failure of the valves of the Internal Spermatic Veins. The equation might be just more complicated than that. Perhaps both Gat and Houser are right but in different ways as there are several competing factors for the cause of BPH.

Inquiring minds want to know more answers.

I had the Urolift on Monday. I was unprepared for the after effects but now 5 days later I'm back about where I started. The doctor said 2 to 4 weeks to see the true results. I'll post as things move along. My friend had the procedure the same day I did and he had had a more difficult recovery. He was unable to urinate yesterday and was going to be cathed. I believe he had a worse case to start.

Martin Victor, in reference to magnesium, I've started using a spray that you apply to your skin from Swanson Ultra called Magnesium Oil (magnesium chloride brine from the ancient Zechstein sea). It avoids the stomach problems associated with ingesting magnesium

Michael,
I've heard the urolift is only for smaller prostates without a large median lobe. Do you know what your and/or your friend's prostate size was?
It's early days for you and him. Many people who do a turp have 4-8 weeks or more of painful recovery. Very interested in knowing how you and your friend respond in the weeks to come.
Good luck.
Bob

Michael Daner said...
I had the Urolift on Monday. I was unprepared for the after effects but now 5 days later I'm back about where I started. The doctor said 2 to 4 weeks to see the true results. I'll post as things move along. My friend had the procedure the same day I did and he had had a more difficult recovery. He was unable to urinate yesterday and was going to be cathed. I believe he had a worse case to start.

Martin Victor, in reference to magnesium, I've started using a spray that you apply to your skin from Swanson Ultra called Magnesium Oil (magnesium chloride brine from the ancient Zechstein sea). It avoids the stomach problems associated with ingesting magnesium

Michael,
Thank you for the info. Best of luck in the weeks to come. I look forward to your future updates.
Bob

Michael Daner said...
My prostate was in the 80s and my friends was in the 60s. In the US around 80 is the limit and everywhere else 100 is the limit. I needed 4 tethers on either side whereas 2 or 3 per side is the usual. In actuality it's up to the doctor as what he will treat but medium lobe is a disqualifier.

rphguy,
Thanks for the update. Glad to see you too are finally seeing results.
Bob

It was my discovery of this forum that gave me the confidence to go Gat Goren. ClapTheHammer's antipathy notwithstanding. Hello LiamIreland, I'm your Affable Aussie, and like you I appreciated the time we were able to spend with the two doctors at our hotel. I am an engineer, and Dr Gat started out in life that way too, so he was able to describe underlying rationale and the process very clearly to me.
I've read a lot of supposition and speculation on this thread, backed up by not much in the way of fact. But I've read no dissatisfaction expressed by a single GG patient. One neutral, the rest positive.
My experiences leading up to my trip to Cyprus were uncannily like Liam's, including the derision from my urologist who is one of the top men in Australia; a professor of urology, no less.
I did my homework, identified the options and the attendant side effects, and decided to spend the Euro17,000 and all the travelling expenses to get relief from my symptoms. That was only six weeks ago.
I'm already glad that I did.
I am peeing more freely and I only have to get up once a night, it had been 3-4. Dr Gat explains this quick result as being a mechanical response to the immediate reduction in hydrostatic pressure on the prostate, which is a result of the blocking of the transverse veins. It is the blocking of these veins that cuts off the flow of free testosterone from the testicles to the prostate, and this addresses the root cause of the BPH and PC and provides the long term benefits.
My prostate was 57cc in volume prior to the procedure, and I will have it measured again at the end of March. I expect it to have reduced markedly.
The deciding factors in going the GG way, given that like everyone I was faced with uncertainty and a lot of practitioners claiming success for their competing procedures, were the simplicity and rationality of the procedure, the absence of side effects and the fact that if it didn't work I would have burnt no bridges.
The procedure itself was extraordinarily simple. A pin prick of the local anaesthetic needle and then less than an hour watching the worm on the screen and chatting to Dr Goren who did the work. No after effects that I could detect.
Put me down as a happy customer.

Ah, it's great to see someone liberated from the aisle seats. Enjoy the view, Liam. I'm thinking we should count ourselves amongst the lucky, to have found the G-G solution.