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What would make you fire your doctor?

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Prostate Cancer
What would make you fire your doctor?
Makes mistakes in your treatment or meds - 33.3% - 8 votes
Ignores your viewpoint - 8.3% - 2 votes
Too arrogant or God-like - 12.5% - 3 votes
Thinks only his way is right - 12.5% - 3 votes
Other errors (such as insurance mistakes) - 0.0% - 0 votes
Other (Tell us) - 33.3% - 8 votes
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Posted 2/4/2015 4:57 PM (GMT 0)
In another current thread TonyPal has raised the issue of whether or not he should fire his doctor, who apparently has made some significant errors in TonyPal's opinion.

This seemed like a good thread topic in itself, so I'm starting it, one that I'm not sure we've pursued before, or at least not recently.

It's a pretty important issue that sometimes does need to be addressed, and one that most of us would want to think seriously about before doing. As A Yooper noted in that other thread, we are all sort of brought up to think that doctors have some kind of special place in the order of things, and that firing them is somehow a dubious thing to do.

Well, that attitude may be changing these days, and it's probably a good thing if it is, but the question remains: just what would it take, what would be the last straw, that would make you decide it's time to fire your current doctor and find a new one?

The survey above offers a few of the possible reasons for doing so, but certainly not all of them. So if you would like to check "Other" in the above survey, and then post below another reason for letting the current guy go, please do so.

It would be interesting to see what people think about this, and it may provide useful information for some of us.
Posted 2/4/2015 5:18 PM (GMT 0)
My first Uro recommend an Orchiectomy as primary treatment during the post biopsy consult. That was the last time I spoke with him.

Cheers, Doug
Posted 2/4/2015 5:20 PM (GMT 0)
I believe it would have to be mostly a combination of things, so I voted "other".

If my doctor was not working in my best interest, I would fire him. If he was pushing one way or the highway, not listening to my concerns, and not helping me with the side effects of my treatment, I would find someone else.

Bill from Florida cool
Posted 2/4/2015 6:33 PM (GMT 0)
^^DITTO^^ to what Bill just said.

Had a doc in a very busy office look at me for two seconds and said I had the flu. Two more days of being very - very ill I ended up in the hospital for two weeks with spinal meningitis.

Aren't we glad I didn't DIE shocked
Posted 2/4/2015 7:13 PM (GMT 0)
So many of those items can be insignificant or critical, based on scope and situation. I couldn't say there is just one that would motivate me to change my current docs, but several together? Might be another story.
Posted 2/4/2015 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
There are several reasons to fire your doctor..
0) Not enough experience in the treatment option you have chosen.

1) Not working in YOUR best interest. Should be telling you to see RT and other specialists before making a treatment choice.

2) Not taking time with me to really listen.

3) Does not work with your other doctors. They all should be working together to get you through this. These are all your employees and you are the boss. They all need to work together to make the boss look good. (Get well in this case.)

4) They should be confident in your decisions. They should not be shy in telling you when you are wrong or when you are right. They are the ones who went to school and have the experience. You usually do not have this issue with a surgeon. They are all that way already.

5) You and the Doctor do not click. You should feel comfortable with the doctor. If you don't, you will not open up to them and your treatment will suffer.

These are just a few of mine...

DonC
Posted 2/5/2015 12:01 AM (GMT 0)
I would look for a new doctor for any of the reasons listed except for the Insurance reason. Its not his area of expertise, and its not why I hired him. And its not him doing it. I would rather have a skilled Dr. with an incompetent administrative staff, than the other way around, when it comes to a serious illness
Posted 2/5/2015 12:28 AM (GMT 0)
An interesting twist on this concept of "firing"...

My wife, a nurse, told me tonight of doctors "firing" their patients--this was the term she used--when the parents refused to follow their vaccination recommendations. They basically told them to take their children to another practice.

I thought Hillary Clinton was excellent today when she Tweeted, "the science is clear; the earth is round, the sky is blue and vaccinations work," while Chris Christie and Rand Paul tripped over their own words about which way is up.


I didn't vote here, but I would find another doctor basically for any of the things you listed.

Post Edited (NKinney) : 2/4/2015 5:31:20 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/5/2015 1:06 AM (GMT 0)
I have found the entire subject here at HW PC of "firing doctors" a bit presumptious. And my remark, absoulutely is not being directed to the OP or any person in particular, just my personal opinion/take.

Over the years, some almost seemed proud on the subject, almost like a power trip thing. I have a high natural respect for most doctors. There can always be a bad apple in any profession. A dumb person, can't fake his way into, through, and out of medical school, and end up becoming a licensed doctor.

If you drop a doctor, he's not going to lose any sweat on losing you as a patient. I have heard an equal number of complaints by very good doctors, that get frustrated with know-it-all patients, then end up being non-compliant to sound medical advice. And when they do, this is noted in their medical records for the next doctor to see. It's called AMA (against medical advice). Not a good thing for the new doctor to read, because they will know at once they have a potential problem patient on their hands.

The other remark I have heard from a good many doctors, is having patients that think they are equal with the doctor just because they research the internet endlessly on their ailments. Our best research abilities do not trump a well trained and experienced doctor. Being well informed is great, no foul there, but I would be careful about disputing the actual medical advice of a doctor on a given subject. One would have to be real careful there.

If a patient loses his confidence in his/her doctor, regardless of the reasons, then by all means, they should find another doctor. The patient/doctor relationship is critical, and the patient must be satisfied with what they are getting.

But "firing" a doctor, perhaps its the term that bothers me, more than the actual deed itself. Just my take, I am qualified at nothing in the medical world, that's why I go to doctors.
Posted 2/5/2015 1:15 AM (GMT 0)
I have only fired one doctor and that was the doctor treating my daughter about 30 years ago. She had a very bad cold and he wanted to put her in the hospital overnight to run tests. It seemed a bit much to me so I asked the doctor why the overnight stay, why the tests and what kind of tests. And he had the nerve to say, "I am not sure you would understand any of this". I kept my cool and allowed him to admit my daughter and run the tests which showed she had a bad cold. The next day I fired him.
Posted 2/5/2015 2:06 AM (GMT 0)
If you've been w/ us since the beginning you all know we fired the first urologist. After stating he had only been doing robotic surgery for a year and had only did about 100, we told him we wanted to pursue all of the options available first before a decision was made. He said "If you see another doctor about this matter I will not treat you for at least three months". (You could tell he almost got offended that we wanted a second opinion and to research options besides surgery, that set off alarms for us so we fired him). Also, just to add to this discussion, I have had many doctors and surgeons over the years as I've had health issues since I was in my 20's and sometimes your personality just doesn't mesh w/ a certain doctor. My GP will immediately when he sets me up w/ a specialist will tell me "We're not going to use Doctor XYZ because you're personalities will clash". I've used the same GP since I was 16 years old so he knows me well. ~Miki~
Posted 2/5/2015 2:22 AM (GMT 0)
I recently counseled my 85 yr old mother to fire her doctor. She had been with a PCP for many years, and he retired and sold his practice to a young doctor. When she had her first visit, it was obvious to her that the new doctor had never even looked at her history (she has 2 prosthetic knees, one prosthetic hip, a frozen shoulder, and sjogren's....as well as chronic sinusitis for at least the last 30 years. Even when she explicitly said she couldn't take certain meds...the doctor wanted to 'try' some of the meds...that have caused serious issues in the past.

Needless to say, she called the local senior citizens advocacy center for a recommendation and moved on.
Posted 2/5/2015 5:18 AM (GMT 0)
Incompetence. Doctors sometimes fire patients, too.
Posted 2/5/2015 2:53 PM (GMT 0)
Tim just said:

"Incompetence. Doctors sometimes fire patients, too."

Exactly, Tim. One of my points. There are patients that try to dictate every step of their treatment(s) with their doctor. Most doctor's have a low tolerance of that kind of attitude. Or during a followup visit, the doctor finds out the patient refused to follow any of his previous instructions or refused to take meds prescribed, etc. It works both ways.
Posted 2/5/2015 3:01 PM (GMT 0)
I've gotten mixed results with talking to docs in the past several years.

Some of the questions I ask - they can tell I've been on the internet. One doc kind of ignores me... another one starts off with "you probably already know this."

On the other hand, I do tech support... and it can and will drive me nuts when clients won't shut up about their opinions... I've had to ask people why they are calling me if they know so much yeah
Posted 2/5/2015 3:05 PM (GMT 0)
I always try and get across that "I'm not questioning you, I'm asking questions." I think it still puts them on edge but what are you going to do?

Cheers, Doug
Posted 2/5/2015 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, to be fair, we do need to see this issue from the docs' viewpoint as well.

For example, it's all in the news now about pediatricians refusing to accept patients, or even have them in their waiting rooms, if the child's parents have not had him/her vaccinated, due to fear of spread of disease.

Without getting into the controversy of whether a parent does or does not have the right to do this, it nevertheless serves as a good example of the kinds of patient attitude issues that doctors have to deal with, probably on a daily basis.

And googling will produce any number of articles written by doctors on the frustrating behaviors of some of their patients.
Posted 2/5/2015 4:05 PM (GMT 0)
all of the above.
Posted 2/5/2015 4:57 PM (GMT 0)
The problem with the survey is that checking one of the options precludes checking the others. Those are all good reasons for firing one's doctor.

Sorry, Purg -- you might not like the term "firing your doctor," and you make many good points about difficult patients, but the term is perfect. My doctor works for me, not the other way around. My best doctors welcome patients that do their own research and ask good questions. Dr. Lam has complimented me about this. There is nothing wrong with a questioning patient. As Zufus used to say, "question everything."

I've had many doctors (too many, thank you PC). I've only fired one. This was the local urologist who I saw when my PSA yielded a red flag (4.01). When I saw him, he had already scheduled me for a biopsy before even discussing it with me. When I said I was going to Umich to get a second opinion, he yelled at me and was very upset. After my Umich appointment, when I said that I was going to have them do the biopsy, he yelled again and after ridiculing the Umich doctor ("who the heck is Dr. xxxx; I never heard of her"), he said that if the biopsy is positive don't go crawling back to him to do the surgery.

Needless to say, when I left his office that day, I KNEW that he was never going to see me again regardless of what the biopsy showed. He was an arrogant SOB and yes, I fired him.

Mel
Posted 2/5/2015 6:46 PM (GMT 0)
At the very least an MD should listen to the patient's concerns/issues.

A lot of MDs have god complexes, cant do anything about that.

Making mistakes, not listening and not willing to consider other options he hasn't thought of are all inexcusable.

If they don't then scr ew them. Uh I mean fire them.
Posted 2/5/2015 6:46 PM (GMT 0)
I've only 'fired' one doctor - a man who just wouldn't listen to me (really, I'd say two words, he'd grunt and lecture me on something totally unrelated to why I came in). Saw him twice and moved on.

I believe very much that it's a partnership between me and my doctor. She knows I research things, but never take action till we've talked about. When it comes time to do some from of treatment she always gives me my options and helps me choose what to do. Of course I do respect her training and experience and it helps that I can trust her to give good advice. The other thing I like about her is that she is willing to admit she doesn't know an answer and send me to the right doctor to get treated.

I can't imagine not having a doctor like that on my side,
Andrew
Posted 2/5/2015 7:16 PM (GMT 0)

InTheShop said...


I believe very much that it's a partnership between me and my doctor. She knows I research things, but never take action till we've talked about. When it comes time to do some from of treatment she always gives me my options and helps me choose what to do. Of course I do respect her training and experience and it helps that I can trust her to give good advice. The other thing I like about her is that she is willing to admit she doesn't know an answer and send me to the right doctor to get treated.

I can't imagine not having a doctor like that on my side,
Andrew

This is the exact attitude that my daughter, a family medicine doc, has about the relationship between a patient and his/her primary care provider. She loves being a family doc because she can establish long-term relationships with patients and provide continuity of medical care.
Posted 2/5/2015 7:25 PM (GMT 0)
I chose "other" because a few of the other choices would all be just-cause in my opinion.

Lots of points being made here - my own opinion - Purg, I disagree with what you presented: ""firing doctors" a bit presumptuous" - I do indeed "hire them", pay them for their services, so yep, if they are not performing to my expectations they will indeed be fired.

Mel, spot on!

I have been blessed with a PCP for the past 18 years, and she has been absolutely incredible to work with. I have the upmost respect for her and the manner with which she, helps me, to manage my health care.

At the end of the day, as I've said many times, we have to be our own best health care advocate, supported by the "right" medical professionals.
Posted 2/5/2015 8:00 PM (GMT 0)
The original list contains reasons I might look at switching healthcare providers, but there are other important reasons I would consider a switch, too, such as...

 * Not practicing evidence-based medicine.  There are some docs who go by "gut-feel," and even tell their patients this is their decision-making tool.  Another clue is when they start following one-size-fits-all approaches.  I'm an engineer; I want someone who is at least as smart as me, and don't want a canned response. 

 * A close parallel to the is someone who doesn't stay up-to-date in his/her field.  The base of knowledge in medicine is evolving, and it would take a lot of extra effort to stay abreast of the latest-and-greatest.  A clue that your doc may not be motivated could be their response if you bring in a peer-reviewed study which may apply to your case and they blow you off.  This is known to be a greater potential concern when you move into the community hospitals & VAs, and further away from the major medical centers.

 * Focusing solely on "prescriptions and procedures."  True, our system rewards doctors who focus on prescriptions and procedures, but the better doctors will nonetheless take a holistic and/or integrative approach to medicine.  Top on the list is whether they voice concern, or even talk about, the patient's physical exercise routines.  Foods and nutrition. 

 * Anyone who fails to respect my own responsibilities, ownership and advocacy for my healthcare.

 

Posted 2/5/2015 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
We are in the process of changing Uros. My husband's urologist made his original diagnosis. For various reasons, we decided to get a 2nd opinion at UAB, 3 hours from home. Both docs (local and UAB) said they expected the cancer to be contained. Our local doc said my husband wasn't a candidate for nerve sparing surgery (No surgeon would even CONSIDER it.) The folks at UAB said nerve sparing might be possible, but it would be a "game day call". We chose UAB for the possibility of sparing the nerves and for their expertise in prostate cancer. Unfortunately, the post-op path report wasn't what we'd hoped. We came back home and saw our original Uro for follow up HT. When we met with the Doc, he inquired about why we sought a 2nd opinion, and about particulars of the surgery. I asked him if he had received our medical records from UAB and he said "I don't know, I'd have to look". He then asked how long the surgery took. My husband told him, at which point, he chuckled and said...."Yeah...I COULD do nerve sparing surgery, but I can't spend that much time in the OR. I wouldn't make any money. I'd starve. I have to get in and out and back to the office so I can see patients. Otherwise, I just wouldn't make any money. Two hours is about all I can do. Those guys over at those teaching hospitals...they're on salary, so they can take as long as they want. I'm in private practice and I have to eat." Needless to say, that was our LAST appointment with that guy.
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