Diagnosed in October '15, only alternative treatments - so far.

Hey folks, this is my first post. I will try to keep it short, but I would like to get some opinions. But first, the facts:

Jan 2015 - PSA of 6.8 (first PSA ever) Doc said not to worry, it's an inaccurate test.
Jul 2015 - PSA of 8.07. Doc said "I can offer you a biopsy".
Oct 2015 - biopsy. Gleason 3/3 in 8 of 12 cores. none higher that 30%.
Age: 53
Symptoms: NONE
Health: near perfect, but in October, weight was 233, height 6 ft, with a BMI of 30. According to the BMI charts, I was obese and 45 pounds overweight. I ate too much meat and too much sugar.

My urologist, whom I shall refer to as the (offensive phrase removed by moderator) immediately recommended prostatectomy. She could not wait to start cutting. I saw another urologist, male, who told me the "gold standard" was to remove the prostate. I also saw a specialist about brachy therapy and external beam radiation. All of these treatments have the same effect: remove or kill the prostate. the side effects profile was, to me, something to be avoided.

I also discovered many websites that say prostate cancer is caused by diet, and can be cured by diet.

I dramatically changed my lifestyle and diet. I have been on the Budwig protocol for about 10 weeks. I get up at dawn and walk/run 2 miles at least 3 times per week before work. I have lost 23 pounds since October. The results???

Dec 2015: PSA of 7.1
weight: 210. According to BMI charts, I am no longer obese and I am 'only' overweight.

That is not the dramatic improvement I hoped for, but I am well pleased. My PSA was trending upwards, and one can extrapolate the December PSA number should have come in around 10. Instead, it was actually LOWER than the JUL PSA and came in at 7.1

I feel I am on the right track and the blood work proves it. However, my urologist states diet DOES NOT cause PC, and can not cure PC.

I would love to hear thoughts on this. My wife and my doctor are the only persons aware of my condition, and neither of them are supportive of my alternative treatments. I told my wife that if my PSA starts to rise again, I will probably go with brachy therapy.

Post Edited By Moderator (Tudpock18) : 12/27/2015 1:42:53 PM (GMT-7)

I think improving your diet and having a low BMI are probably more important for you in the long term health than the dealing with the threat from your Gleason 6 cancer.

If however you hope that the diet will cure your cancer, I don't believe this will happen.

Brachytherapy sounds like a great option.
Wish you the best,

An

Welcome. Where are you from?
You made a statement that radiation would remove or kill the prostate. I think that is an overstatement. Radiation is likely to kill cancer cells primarily over time.

Diet might contribute to pca development but is unlikely to cure it. Diet may improve PSA doubling time.
With 8 cores you might take a second look at radiation therapy. Good luck.

compiler said...
You want my thought?
Drop the "*****" comment.
Have you no common sense to realize that is offensive?

Mel

I agree with Mel. It was my first and immediate reaction to your post. That kind of comment has no place here.

(Comment in original post deleted by moderator, so removed here as well - 142)

Post Edited By Moderator (142) : 12/28/2015 6:37:16 AM (GMT-7)

That goes for me also. I sent an admin alert, but none seem to be around at the moment. I suggest you, Pangloss, edit your post if you wish others in this best of all possible forums to share in your concerns.

Hello Pangloss and welcome. You will note a little pushback from your fellow members because of an offensive phrase you used in your initial post. I have since deleted that so hopefully we can get back on track. (Sorry, folks - your mods were doing other things today).

Re your question, I personally have my doubts about your diet curing your cancer. However, I think a good diet is likely to help keep things under control. It sounds like you may be a candidate for "active surveillance" of your cancer. The key is active. One thing you should do right away is get another reading on your biopsy slides from an expert like Bostwick or Epstein to make sure you have a good reading of your pathology. Read the sticky thread at the top of our forum to see how and why to do that.

Beyond that, if you decide to not seek a radical treatment at this time it can be a good decision and you will find many here who support you. But, I suggest you find a doctor or practice with experience with AS patients so that the follow up and protocols will give you the best chance of success.

Good luck.

Jim

P.S. to the other members. If you spot a rules violation, probably the quickest way to get it fixed is to email the mods. Admin alerts go to Peter and he has been very busy lately.

You are a candidate for AS. Getting in shape is definitely helpful. Anyone who recommends RP for you is unhelpful.
Bob

robertC:

those are the words from my urologist. The goal of radiation treatment is to kill the prostate. He told me it would take many months to die, but eventually there would be nothing left of the prostate.

That is why, per my urologist, it can take several years for the side effects profile to fully develop after radiation treatment.

Surgey side effects, on the other hand, are immediate, but tend to improve for several years.

robertC: hmm...thanks for the info. I will definitely look into that issue further.

Talking to a doctor about cancer is a lot to take in so I may have misinterpreted something he said. However, he was comparing the various treatment options. I told him I favored brachy therapy due to the reduced side effect profile when compared to surgery. That's when he told me the side effects can get worse for several years after radiation treatment as the prostate dies and shrivels.

Post Edited (Pangloss) : 12/27/2015 4:41:25 PM (GMT-7)

Yeah, extrapolation from something it never was ???? Doesn't work that way...you get what you get without any speculation as to what it might have been. That's like those guys that start some cockamamie "program" and their PSA continues to rise...they say it was a success because it would have risen more without the program..they don't know that anymore than you know it would have been 10

You should have extrapolated from 13...then it would have been a drop of 6 points...maybe 16?

Pangloss, something that does show up in the literature is PSA doubling time. This gives some indication of the growth rate, sort of. It's vital to remember that PSA is NOT a cancer test. It is a test of prostate activity, and lots of things can cause it to fluctuate. A few examples:

Having sex within 48 hours before the blood draw can cause a spike
Bicycle/horseback/motorcycle riding (anything that puts pressure direct on the prostate) can cause a spike
Infection
Some drugs and supplements (notably proscar and saw palmetto) can cause PSA to go down...with no effect on any PC that is present. (this happened to me: I was on saw palmetto and my PSA doubled three annual tests in a row...and the urologist told me to double my last reading!)

The common statement about doubling time is that if it's less than 12-18 months, then not much is happening that is of concern. In your case, any extrapolation based on your six month change might take you to around 9...which give a doubling time of between 18 months and 2 years.

At any rate, keep an eye on things, and keep asking questions. And PLEASE, no more **** comments. (an apology would be nice)

Pangloss said...
sheepguy:
my PSA increased from 6.8 to 8.07 in 6 months. Given a linear increase, one could conclude that in another 6 months, the PSA would have increased another 1.2 points to 9. Given that cancer cells increase exponentially, I rounded to 10.

Please explain how you came up with 13 and 16.

It is perfectly reasonable that your PSA would have risen some more in 6 months and indeed that it would have increased your extrapolated amount, OR MORE. Certainly mine, after giving me a shock by how much it had increased over several years, went on to increase at an even scarier rate by the time I could get in to the Urol and schedule the Bx. It increased another 20+% in just a few weeks. I never checked one that did not increase, except when I did some home treatment (no, not a DIY RP, just certain supplements) during the 2 months after Bx while waiting for scheduled surgery, when I dropped about 3 points. (Hey, that is how much your are figuring yours probably dropped, based on where you figure it should have gone, coincidence?) That was my only PSA that ever failed to increase -much less decrease- until I had the rat you know what cut out of there.

So YES, you can make that extrapolation if you want to, and you might be right. Or, you might be totally wrong. You might have increased another 1.2 points, or 4, or 0.2. There is just not much way to know. People's PSA can vary with numerous- including non-cancer related- things, like prostatitis for one. Even us guys with no prostates- or who have had them radiated- go through variations and sometimes needless scares. Our PSA may drop to undetectable after surgery, then come back to detectable and steadily increasing by say .01 at a time. And we figure more treatment is imminent because it's going up over some months. Then, with no treatment, it stops or rarely even goes back down a bit. So, how much a PSA is going to rise without treatment is not exactly something that you can make iron clad guarantees about.

However in your case, at some point you will probably know if you are onto something helpful. While you can not predict with much accuracy how much your PSA should have gone up, it probably is reasonable to say with diagnosed PC it should have gone up a bit or at least not dropped much. And since PSA is all we have to go by, decreasing PSA is the main indicator of a successful treatment(again, about all we have to go by) So if you had been radiated and immediately dropped a point or 2, that would be seen as a goods sign while looking for further decreases with only minimal increases over the months(2 steps forward, one back sometimes). If you keep doing what you are doing, and you drop another 2 points in a few months, you may well be on to something. Assuming that most of your past PSA rise was actually caused by your PC(probably was) and not by prostatitis or BPH. Regardless, dropping PSA is IMO a positive sign, especially if it continues dropping. It is the sign you would be looking for if you ad RT, RP or HT.