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Gat Goren, PAE, LUTS, Part 7

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Posted 3/5/2016 6:58 PM (GMT 0)

martin victor said...
Magcell Vetri used in the original testing is available at:

Distributed out of Louisiana:
http://www.physiomed.de/index.php?id=372
Distribution network national/international

National and international agencies and partners in over 83 countries guarantee competent and individual consulting as well as straightforward help. This distribution network has ensured for optimal after sales service since 1973. Do not hesitate to contact us. We are looking forward to getting you in touch with a partner of ours near to you!

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PHONE 318 368 7266
E-FAX 501 325 6683
E-MAIL [email protected]

PHYSIOMED North America, LLC is independently owned and operated and is not a part, branch, affiliate or agent of PHYSIOMED ELEKTROMEDIZIN AG.

Note: Anyone reading my posts on electromagnetic therapy please do your own research as to its efficacy and whether there can be any contra indications to one's health.


Hi Martin-
Have been looking for more information on the PEMF approach for BPH but it looks a bit like the technology has now been positioned for broad use- losing the focus as a remedy for for a specific ailment.

Have you seen any progress on more human trials?

Thanks
Posted 3/10/2016 9:37 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,
Quick update.
PSA now at 7.26, GP is happy with the slow downward trend.
Taking nettle root and Crila.
Symptom free.
Posted 3/17/2016 2:09 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Sashman

Nice I saw your last post on this and at that point it was a wait and see. What brands and doses?
Posted 3/17/2016 2:56 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Jeff,
The Crila I buy from this website on ebay~:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-x-40-Tablets-320-Capsules-CRILA-Crinum-Latifolium-Prostate-Ovarian-Treatment-/291514183006?hash=item43df996d5e:g:J~oAAOSwT6pVoxNM.
I see Swanson are also offering this product now and I will try there offering in July when mu current supply runs out.
The nettle root I get from a local herbalist.
I have a couple of jars of nettle root in vodka making my own tincture which I will start using mid April.
Jim
Posted 3/30/2016 1:49 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I am confused. I had my spring Urologist appt. yesterday.
15-20 years ago I was told I had bi-lateral varicocele but nothing to worry about.
I asked for an ultrasound because I was considering having a varicocele repair done.
I've had discomfort for many years on the left side and, of course, I have BPH.

The good news:
1. my psa was 0.65
2. prostate ultrasound measured at 36.
3. ultrasound revealed "a small varicocele on the left side", no problem on the right side.

But, I am perplexed as to what to do. the manipulation of the scrotum during the ultrasound left me in pain last night and didn't fall asleep until 1 a.m. I took naproxen 500mg to help. Actually, I've been experiencing tenderness for a few days now. That tenderness comes and goes for the past 30 years.


So, my question involves this small varicocele. My URO says that he would advise doing nothing and that the pain is not likely caused by it, but would refer me to a interventional radiologist if I insist.

Could the "small varicocele" still be the cause of my BPH and the scrotal pain I've had most of my life?

what to do?
Posted 6/8/2016 1:11 AM (GMT 0)
5-Year Update
=========

I can't believe it's been five years since my Gat-Goren procedure, 30 May 2011, to be exact.

Things continue as they have been these past two years. On some nights, especially if I've been overhydrating or taking certain vitamins or supplements, I might get up for a bathroom call. But many nights I just sleep through without disturbances. A big change from pre-GG when I was getting up 4+ times a night. Days are equally improved. I will often notice some slight urgency or slight discomfort in my lower regions. Thirty years ago, I know I didn't have these. Still, a huge improvement over pre-GG days. Under ideal circumstances (limited water, no supplements), I can go up to 4-5 hours between bathroom trips.

I had an transabdominal ultrasound done 2 months, to compare it with the one 5 years ago just before my procedure. My prostate shrunk about half, from 51 cc to 25 cc. Both ultrasounds were the transabdominal type, though done in different clinics.

My prostate size is holding constant. A year after the procedure, my local urologist measured it at 22.3 cc with transrectal U/S. Transabdominal U/S gives a slightly higher reading than transrectal on the same prostate, so I think that's exactly what's going on here. Bottom line: My prostate hasn't grown in four years.

My symptoms improved in fits and starts for three years following the procedure, and then reached their final state. I will update again in a year or sooner if there is a change.

Good luck to all.
Posted 6/13/2016 4:57 PM (GMT 0)
Hello everyone,
I am new to this thread and have read many of your posts. I do need your advise for my problem. Thank you very much. Here's a quick summary of my BPH journey.

I am 67 and have had BPH for 20 years. I've had 3 biopsies over the years, the most recent was 2011. All were negative. I've been on an alpha blocker for 10 years and was on Proscar for 5 years and am now on Avodart since 2011. Last fall I had 2 "liquid biopsies", one was the MiPS urine test and the other was the Apifiny blood test that looks for autoantibodies to PCa. Both tests were extremely low for PCa risk so I can say that I am hopefully clear.

During the past 15 years my PSA has fluctuated between 4 and 15. Currently it is about 11. In 2011 my prostate size was measured at 150 gm. My urologist here will only offer me Turp or an open prostatectomy.

My symptoms are the usual ones but not too bad yet. A few weeks ago I travelled to another clinic to measure my prostate size (TRUS) and was surprised it had grown to 280gms. The bladder and kidneys still looked ok but showing the usual signs of stress. (My own uro here just yells at me when I suggest alternative solutions or diagnostics).

The uro who measured my prostate a few weeks ago said there was a large median lobe. He does robotic simple prostatectomies (SP) and offered me that. But last week I had the opportunity to see another local uro who also does robotic prostate procedures. He did a cystoscopy on me ( my first ) and said I had NO median lobe and would not benefit from a robotic SP. He said my prostate was very long and extended along the urethra in the transitional zone region. He said my bladder looked ok. It was interesting to watch it all.

So this urologist gave me a referral to another uro who does GLL. But this procedures worries me as I have read terrible accounts of its side effects on large prostates ( over 100gm ) due to extensive heating of the surrounding tissue due to the long procedure time.

I did contact Dr. Gat a few months about doing his procedure but he said the largest prostate he has done was 200gm. At the time I thought I had a large median lobe obstructing the bladder neck so he declined me. He also said it could take over a year for me to benefit from his procedure and I needed something sooner. I guess it saved me a lot of money but I have read his papers and the personal stories here and believe in it.

I also wonder about the PAE procedure. I have read some of the accounts here that seem promising. Maybe a 30% volume reduction for a very extended prostate would really help me? I don't know.

I've also looked into HoLEP but the potential for a dramatic reduction of quality of life is very scary for me. I also read about REZUM but it seems to be for smaller prostates. But maybe I could benefit from this procedure given the extended nature of my prostate? It seems that for a given prostate mass there are many different geometries and maybe some of these shapes are not disqualified while others are disqualified from certain procedures?

So now I don't know how to proceed and am very confused. The Holep surgeon I spoke to said it was "criminal" of my own uro to consider Turp on such a large prostate as I would be in surgery every 6 months. But another doctor told me that I am much too big for Holep as well and they would have to open up my abdomen to remove the enucleated tissue. And so on and so on.

This forum has so many smart people - can anyone offer any suggestions? I know I am sitting on a ticking time bomb and need to do something but don't want to jump at some procedure that could leave me with a worst problem for the rest of my life.

One last point: last summer I had an asthma attack and was given a 5 day supply of prednisone tablets (50mg). It was unbelievable! After 3 days I started peeing like I did in my 20s. I even set up a target 10 feet away and could hit it! All my BPH symptoms disappeared for a week - I never felt so good! I know steroids are very dangerous and are not the answer but it did demonstrate the inflammatory nature of this disease.

Thank you very much for reading this and any advise you offer me. I wish you all the best with all your own issues.

Howard
Posted 6/28/2016 12:07 PM (GMT 0)
i had a PAE and do not regret it at all.
My prostate went from 53 down to 31 now.
i was one of the early "trial" patients for a doctor.
I was having to cath myself a couple of times a day prior to procedure.
I also had bladder diverticuli that had to be fixed.

after all is said and done, I still have to take medicine, but I am much better.
I am told I have a narrow bladder neck is why I still have to take medicine.
they can easily fix that, but with the chance of having retrograde ejaculation.

I've been considering it because I would like to quit medicine for good.
Posted 7/11/2016 9:04 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Folks,
Any of you guys who have had PAE or GG noticed an increase in testosterone post the procedure?
Posted 7/25/2016 1:45 AM (GMT 0)

Sashman said...
Hi Folks,
Any of you guys who have had PAE or GG noticed an increase in testosterone post the procedure?

Yes, I've noticed that. My T levels had gradually decreased year by year to very low levels. Worse, there were a lot of even lower plunges from time to time. I associate these plunges with psychological symptoms since I felt very depressed during one period that a blood test showed a plunge in my T.

Since my GG procedure in 2011, my T levels have been very stable, varying just a few percent from assay to assay, with no evidence of plunges. But they are still low. (I always believed that had I had the procedure 10 or 20 years earlier, I would have much higher T levels now--just my opinion.)

HTH.

Post Edited (Chicago Dave) : 7/24/2016 7:50:11 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/25/2016 9:41 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Dave
Posted 8/20/2016 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Neil123 (Howard),
I've been away from this forum for a number of weeks and just saw your post. I don't know if you have come upon any decisions since posting. We are in a similar boat in regard to giant prostates. I'm 69 and also had bph for about 20 years. My prostate grows like crazy. I've had 2 Greenlight lasers and a turp in the past 4 years. Prior to the turp in April, 2015 my prostate was measured at 313g. with a median lobe protruding into the bladder. When measured in Nov., 2015, after the turp it was 203g. In Nov. I started taking dutasteride to try to stop the regrowth without further procedures. I expect to get another sonogram in the next month or two to see what the future holds.

Despite the large prostate, I have no symptoms of retention or difficulty in urinating, and my PVR in Nov., 2015 was measured at 32 ml. My PSA was 7.8. I've never had a biosy, but after the turp they sent about 30g. to pathology and it was negative for any malignancy.

However due to other health issues (afib and lymphoma) and the meds I am taking I do get up about 5 times a night. Using a bedside basket with urinals in it in the dark while sitting at the edge of the bed allows me to get back to sleep in minutes. Being retired I have the luxury of going to bed around midnight and sleeping until 9 in the morning.

I also had the feeling this was a ticking timebomb. But with my recent health issues (I was diagnosed with both in April 2016), this has been on the back burner, and seems nowhere as serious as it did when it was my only health issue.
Bob

neil123 said...
Hello everyone,
I am new to this thread and have read many of your posts. I do need your advise for my problem. Thank you very much. Here's a quick summary of my BPH journey.

I am 67 and have had BPH for 20 years. I've had 3 biopsies over the years, the most recent was 2011. All were negative. I've been on an alpha blocker for 10 years and was on Proscar for 5 years and am now on Avodart since 2011. Last fall I had 2 "liquid biopsies", one was the MiPS urine test and the other was the Apifiny blood test that looks for autoantibodies to PCa. Both tests were extremely low for PCa risk so I can say that I am hopefully clear.

During the past 15 years my PSA has fluctuated between 4 and 15. Currently it is about 11. In 2011 my prostate size was measured at 150 gm. My urologist here will only offer me Turp or an open prostatectomy.

My symptoms are the usual ones but not too bad yet. A few weeks ago I travelled to another clinic to measure my prostate size (TRUS) and was surprised it had grown to 280gms. The bladder and kidneys still looked ok but showing the usual signs of stress. (My own uro here just yells at me when I suggest alternative solutions or diagnostics).

The uro who measured my prostate a few weeks ago said there was a large median lobe. He does robotic simple prostatectomies (SP) and offered me that. But last week I had the opportunity to see another local uro who also does robotic prostate procedures. He did a cystoscopy on me ( my first ) and said I had NO median lobe and would not benefit from a robotic SP. He said my prostate was very long and extended along the urethra in the transitional zone region. He said my bladder looked ok. It was interesting to watch it all.

So this urologist gave me a referral to another uro who does GLL. But this procedures worries me as I have read terrible accounts of its side effects on large prostates ( over 100gm ) due to extensive heating of the surrounding tissue due to the long procedure time.

I did contact Dr. Gat a few months about doing his procedure but he said the largest prostate he has done was 200gm. At the time I thought I had a large median lobe obstructing the bladder neck so he declined me. He also said it could take over a year for me to benefit from his procedure and I needed something sooner. I guess it saved me a lot of money but I have read his papers and the personal stories here and believe in it.

I also wonder about the PAE procedure. I have read some of the accounts here that seem promising. Maybe a 30% volume reduction for a very extended prostate would really help me? I don't know.

I've also looked into HoLEP but the potential for a dramatic reduction of quality of life is very scary for me. I also read about REZUM but it seems to be for smaller prostates. But maybe I could benefit from this procedure given the extended nature of my prostate? It seems that for a given prostate mass there are many different geometries and maybe some of these shapes are not disqualified while others are disqualified from certain procedures?

So now I don't know how to proceed and am very confused. The Holep surgeon I spoke to said it was "criminal" of my own uro to consider Turp on such a large prostate as I would be in surgery every 6 months. But another doctor told me that I am much too big for Holep as well and they would have to open up my abdomen to remove the enucleated tissue. And so on and so on.

This forum has so many smart people - can anyone offer any suggestions? I know I am sitting on a ticking time bomb and need to do something but don't want to jump at some procedure that could leave me with a worst problem for the rest of my life.

One last point: last summer I had an asthma attack and was given a 5 day supply of prednisone tablets (50mg). It was unbelievable! After 3 days I started peeing like I did in my 20s. I even set up a target 10 feet away and could hit it! All my BPH symptoms disappeared for a week - I never felt so good! I know steroids are very dangerous and are not the answer but it did demonstrate the inflammatory nature of this disease.

Thank you very much for reading this and any advise you offer me. I wish you all the best with all your own issues.

Howard

Post Edited (Bob_NJ) : 8/20/2016 2:51:10 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/3/2016 4:01 PM (GMT 0)
Hi All, Hope everyone's doing ok. UPDATE. I had my GG in March 2102. Overview, Prior to GG, was getting up numerous times nightly, taking up to half hr to pee each time and never feeling MT. Daytime visits similar, on prescribed drugs..... Now Sept 2016.... Never need to get up nightime unless drinking fluids late and then usually only once with flow usually continuous - although I do double void. First pee of the morning normally a bit slow especially if I sleep on my back. Daytime, flow improves second pee to almost normal. Daytime visits frequency normal. Pee force, medium to good if that makes any sense.
I take no drugs.

NOW, here's what I have experienced and that has thrown me:

As others testify, improvements are sporadic with times when you think you are regressing.. then bam!
a couple of weeks down the line, the flow improves..... This has happened several times over the period since the procedure. During these periods, I have resorted to finasteride & diffundox. The lastes regression was a few months ago - 4years down the line - when I completely regressed to pre GG symptons, so I had a blood test - PSA was at 9.5. I then started retaking Finasteride and diffundox to improve things. I took what remaining tablets I had for a couple of weeks. I was really worried thinking this is it! But, a couple of weeks down the line, flow improved again and since then waterworks have improved to the best I've ever experienced since my problems first began. CRAZY!

I've now decided to visit the urologist - I spoke to Dr G and he has asked me to get my prostate volume checked. I'm also looking now to have a Urine test PcA3 rather than biopsy just to check for PCA and will keep you all posted.

apart from that... all's well, i feel great and hopefully all is..... any other suggestions gratefully received
Posted 9/3/2016 4:26 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Andy,

Based on my experience the total prostate volume is much less important than the pvr (post void residual). A sonogram can measure both and also see if your median lobe is protruding into the bladder.

The pvr is really the important number since it tells wether or not you are voiding completely. My last procedure was a turp in April 2015. In Nov. 2015 my pvr was just 32 ml., my voiding stream was good, but I still get up 3 - 4 times a night. I believe this is because the bladder capacity decreased after 20 years of bph, and as you age your bladder can be more active at night. I will be 70 this month.

I haven't taken tamsulosin in a few years but am taking dutasteride since Nov 2015 to shrink the prostate. Before my turp the prostate measured 313 g. with a median lobe protruding into the bladder, taking up about 15% of the lower bladder. I asked for the CD of the sonogram and saw this image of the lobe and bladder myself on my computer. However, during self cathing before the turp, I realized the protrusion was about 3/4 of an inch from the bladder mouth, so it didn't block the bladder opening.

In Nov. 2015 my prostate measured 203g. and yet my stream has been fine and my pvr negligible. So the total size of the prostate is not a significant factor in my bph. I have a couple of bedside urinals in a small plastic waste basket by the head of my bed and generally void 1 to 2 liters per night, with no hesitancy, a good stream and volumes of 200 to 400ml per void. I've trained myself to go in the dark sitting on the edge of the bed. I hold up the urinal against an lcd clock to check the volume and then go right back to sleep.

You might want to get a second psa test. I also had an 8.9 result a few years ago, but the next test was in the 6.7 range. My uro said the first test was an "outlier". I never got a biopsy, but when I had the turp, about 35 g. of tissue was sent to pathology and they found no malignancies.

Bob

andyaction said...
Hi All, Hope everyone's doing ok. UPDATE. I had my GG in March 2102. Overview, Prior to GG, was getting up numerous times nightly, taking up to half hr to pee each time and never feeling MT. Daytime visits similar, on prescribed drugs..... Now Sept 2016.... Never need to get up nightime unless drinking fluids late and then usually only once with flow usually continuous - although I do double void. First pee of the morning normally a bit slow especially if I sleep on my back. Daytime, flow improves second pee to almost normal. Daytime visits frequency normal. Pee force, medium to good if that makes any sense.
I take no drugs.

NOW, here's what I have experienced and that has thrown me:

As others testify, improvements are sporadic with times when you think you are regressing.. then bam!
a couple of weeks down the line, the flow improves..... This has happened several times over the period since the procedure. During these periods, I have resorted to finasteride & diffundox. The lastes regression was a few months ago - 4years down the line - when I completely regressed to pre GG symptons, so I had a blood test - PSA was at 9.5. I then started retaking Finasteride and diffundox to improve things. I took what remaining tablets I had for a couple of weeks. I was really worried thinking this is it! But, a couple of weeks down the line, flow improved again and since then waterworks have improved to the best I've ever experienced since my problems first began. CRAZY!

I've now decided to visit the urologist - I spoke to Dr G and he has asked me to get my prostate volume checked. I'm also looking now to have a Urine test PcA3 rather than biopsy just to check for PCA and will keep you all posted.

apart from that... all's well, i feel great and hopefully all is..... any other suggestions gratefully received

Post Edited (Bob_NJ) : 9/3/2016 10:33:46 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/6/2016 12:10 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Guys.
Been quite a while since I dropped on here.
Have had to have a prostatectomy late last year.
My Australian version of GG embolisation was obviously way to late
to prevent the op. Unfortunately for me there is some small metastasis which I look like having to treated by HT.
I still believe that GG theory is valid and the mainstream medical understanding of Pca is wrong. Just wish I knew about GG much earlier.

I need to throw in something I have learnt though which has maybe not been mentioned here. I don't have the time to read all the previous posts.
What causes varicocele ?
It took me a while because there didn't seem to be an obvious reason other than the high levels of testosterone in the gonadal veins. But I couldn't find any papers connecting T and varicocele....and Menachem Goran did not know of any either.
What I did find was a very thorough paper on portal hypertension by Dr Andrew K Burroughs. In this paper it shows how varicocele can be caused by portal hypertension via Veins of Retzius at the upper colon. Unfortunately I can't post diagrams here. Now given that the portal venous system has no or only few valves it is easy to see how this could be the primary cause...as head pressure in the portal system is inevitable.
I am now of the belief that my post puberty varicocele was caused by problems in my portal system. My varicocele came soon after appendectomy. Trying to get my lower portal system flow checked now but I am bashing my head against a status quo wall. This may or may not be a big new link in the cause of our prostate problems.
Any Interventionist Radiologist in Sydney with a serious interest in Prostate issues & who wants to use me as a lab rat ? Please contact me.
Posted 9/7/2016 7:25 PM (GMT 0)
IRD1956, Sorry to hear of your PCA diagnosis. I was diagnosed with lymphoma as well as atrial fibrillation in April which put my prostate concerns on the back burner.

Others here are much better versed on GG than I am but I believe GG was discovered by accident as a reduction of luts symptoms was reported as a beneficial side effect to the GG procedure being used to treat male infertility. I think it was also noted that there was a strong correlation between their cases and men with varicoseles, which led them to believe the varicoseles were part of the equation.

If they were using GG to treat male infertiltiy, then they were trying to reduce Testosterone because it is a barrier to fertility. I believe they surmised that reducing testosterone would also reduce PCA, just like your HT would do. And I believe they theorized that the varicoseles were involved in the excess testosterone getting to the prostate, which increased the prostate size, created the infertility, and increased the incidence of PCA.

In my own case, I have abnormal prostate growth (was 313 g. before my turp almost a year and a half ago, after two Greenlight lasers in the previous 3 years), and was 203g. after a turp in April 2015 when measured with a sonogram last November. I have had a large varicosele on the left side since my early teens. But I was not infertile (had three children) and my testosterone has always been on the low end, sometimes below range, other times just above the low end of the range. (Maybe the testosterone landed in my prostate instead of my blood stream?) So in my case some of the theory works but some of it does not. I have been taking dutasteride for the past 9 months. Dutasteride prevents testosterone from converting to DHT, and is supposed to shrink the prostate by up to 25%. I haven't had a chance to get a sonogram to see where my prostate is now, but I am voiding ok so far.

Good luck with your HT.

Bob

IRD1956 said...
Hi Guys.
Been quite a while since I dropped on here.
Have had to have a prostatectomy late last year.
My Australian version of GG embolisation was obviously way to late
to prevent the op. Unfortunately for me there is some small metastasis which I look like having to treated by HT.
I still believe that GG theory is valid and the mainstream medical understanding of Pca is wrong. Just wish I knew about GG much earlier.

I need to throw in something I have learnt though which has maybe not been mentioned here. I don't have the time to read all the previous posts.
What causes varicocele ?
It took me a while because there didn't seem to be an obvious reason other than the high levels of testosterone in the gonadal veins. But I couldn't find any papers connecting T and varicocele....and Menachem Goran did not know of any either.
What I did find was a very thorough paper on portal hypertension by Dr Andrew K Burroughs. In this paper it shows how varicocele can be caused by portal hypertension via Veins of Retzius at the upper colon. Unfortunately I can't post diagrams here. Now given that the portal venous system has no or only few valves it is easy to see how this could be the primary cause...as head pressure in the portal system is inevitable.
I am now of the belief that my post puberty varicocele was caused by problems in my portal system. My varicocele came soon after appendectomy. Trying to get my lower portal system flow checked now but I am bashing my head against a status quo wall. This may or may not be a big new link in the cause of our prostate problems.
Any Interventionist Radiologist in Sydney with a serious interest in Prostate issues & who wants to use me as a lab rat ? Please contact me.

Posted 9/7/2016 9:28 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Bob NJ.
You are missing a few points re GG. The varicocele is causing corrupted flow so less T is arriving at your hypothalamus so you are continually producing T in your testicles which is flooding into your prostate via deferential veins. T is only registering low because where they take the blood out of your arm is nearly the same vertical level as your hypothalamus which controls the T levels.
Infertility is not caused by T...but by the corrupted flow causing the testicles to run hot. Maybe your right testicle did not have varicocele so was producing valid sperm.
Btw....your atrial fibrillation is caused by your varicocele. It astounds me that cardiologists don't know that. I had bad episodes of AF until my embolisation. Never since. The varicocele produces episodes of extreme low pressure on the intake side of your heart. If a plumber did not understand that he would want shooting ;-)

Post Edited (IRD1956) : 9/7/2016 11:58:12 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/7/2016 9:36 PM (GMT 0)
Oh...btw...varicocele is also what is causing erectile disfunction and urinary incontinency. Both those problems disappeared after my embolisation. They are both probably caused because the blood in the lower abdomen become highly deoxigenated and full of uric acid. Not an environment that muscles and tissue can function in properly.
Posted 9/7/2016 9:48 PM (GMT 0)
Hi IRD1956,
I searched the internet to look for a varicocele causing afib and found nothing. Can you cite any sources for this? Not saying it can't be true but don't see anything online to support it. Apparently no cardiologist has subscribed to this because fixing a varicocele ought to be a lot easier than heart ablation which is their main surgical treatment for afib. I do have ED and above normal uric acid, but don't have incontinence. My right testicle is normal.

Thanks,
Bob

IRD1956 said...
Hi Bob NJ.
You are missing a few points re GG. The varicocele is causing corrupted flow so less T is arriving at your hyperthalmus so you are continually producing T in your testicles which is flooding into your prostate via deferential veins. It is only regestering low because where they take the blood out of your arm is nearly the same vertical level as your hyperthamus which controls the T levels.
Infertility is not caused by T...but by the corrupted flow causing the testicles to run hot. Maybe your right testicle did not have varicocele so was producing valid sperm.
Btw....your atrial fibrilation is caused by your varicocele. It astounds me that cardiologists don't know that. I had bad episodes of AF until my embolisation. Never since. The varicocel produces eposodes of extreme low pressure on the intake side of your heart. It a plumber did not understand that he would want shooting ;-)

Post Edited (Bob_NJ) : 9/7/2016 3:51:44 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/7/2016 11:32 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Bob.
No it is just my experience. Fibrillation completely stopped post embolisation of my 7mm (3mm is normal max.)bilateral varicoceles. This whole GG/varicocele issue is all new science. Drs do not understand it...well at least the Drs here in Australia. The only Drs who have some idea are the Interventionist Radiologists....but their understanding of the whole varicocele/pelvic congestion/prostate problem is limited.
I met up with a guy who works in the same industry as me a while back at the beach. I knew of him but did not know him but we ended up going for coffee. Him, me and his wife...who had been a nurse and then done a science degree. We got onto this subject because he and I both had prostate issues. I asked him if he had varicocele. He did not know what it was until I described it. No Dr had diagnosed it. He then said he had had it bad since puberty. He also had bad venous insufficiency in his legs and atrial fibrillation. He had some pacemaker of sorts fitted. Everything I described about my symptoms he had.
Try reading this, which is based on females, and try ticking off other issues you may have. I have them all...well except the vagina ! ;-) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3835435/
I wish I could post jpegs here because I have one from Dr Burroughs that sheds a whole new light on problems with corrupted blood flow in the abdomen.
Posted 9/7/2016 11:50 PM (GMT 0)
Bob....re the cardiologists not subscribing to the varicocele/fibrillation connection....I think they just have not picked up on the issue. Varicocele seems to be little understood and has been difficult to treat pre Interventional Radiology because of the collateral veins that open up. It took 3 ops to get my gonadal system sealed...but they were all under local anaesthetic. The last and most successful of which was with the help of the very amicable Dr Goren. I had gotten to the point of asking for my left testicle to be cut out before he helped me get a complete embolisation. The previous 2 ops were either performed by or supervised by one of the best Interventionist Radiologists in Sydney...but those ops were obviously incomplete. The Gat Goren team has taken the varicocele embolisation treatment quite a few step forward.
I have nothing but praise for them.
Posted 9/8/2016 5:32 PM (GMT 0)
IRD1956,
What did Dr. Goren say when you asked him to remove one testicle? I had asked my own urologist if removing the testicles could be an alternative to a prostatectomy and he laughed it off, saying I would have a great law suit against him if he were to do that. But some years ago I saw a post by an older man from a third world country that stated his doctor wanted to remove his testicles as a solution to his prostate growth and retention.

I'm not sure if the side effects of removing both testicles would be better or worse than those of a total prostatectomy. But removing one testicle with a varicocele ought to be fairly simple and shouldn't have much in the way of side effects for a man who no longer wants to father children.

Also I wonder why GG don't embolize the veins leading to the testicle with the varicocele, rather than the veins going to the prostate? Once again it would seem a fairly easy procedure, compared to the GG or PAE procedures.
Posted 9/8/2016 7:31 PM (GMT 0)
It's been a long time since I visited this forum...I have forgotten about my prostate problems. I had embolization 3/14, about 2 1/2 years ago. My only remaining symptom is occasional double-voiding after sitting a long time. I'm not even sure that is a prostate problem since I also have mild interstitial cystitis. I don't have to get up at night to pee at all, zero!

Just prior to the procedure my PSA had increased to 9.7 (a repeat the same month was about the same). It has trended down ever since the embolization, and just now it is down to 4.6. I am 70 so that is actually normal for my age. My varicocele has not recurred.

The decision to have the embolization was the best decision I have ever made. My life would be very different now if I was having to go the TURP/Laser/etc. route. My procedure was done here in Florida and I am obviously very happy with the results.

Good luck to all of you who are still struggling with this issue. I'll try to check back to see if anybody has any questions.
Posted 9/8/2016 8:59 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Bob.
It was not Dr Goren who I asked to remove the testicle...it was a local urologist....who it turned out also knew nothing about varicocele. My primary reason for asking was testicular pain. It was post the first 2 embolisation ops. This urologist did a valsalva test and claimed the varicocele was fixed. I told him that the valsalva was not a decent test of varicocele and that there must still be varicocele because of the pain. I got the "I've been doing this for 30 years" berating. 3 weeks later I had managed to connect with Menachem Goren who kindly offered to discuss with Dr Boshell who had taken over at St Vincents Radiology. I was called in for a 3rd longer operation to complete my embolisation....and Dr Boshell straight away found a co-lateral left varicocele open from testicle to renal vein. This is how I know that your std urologist knows nothing about varicocele and the cause of Pca. They have there heads buried on the subject.

Post Edited (IRD1956) : 9/8/2016 4:28:52 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/8/2016 9:00 PM (GMT 0)
Love to hear the good news stories Frank. Congratulations....and thanks for posting.

Post Edited (IRD1956) : 9/8/2016 5:26:23 PM (GMT-6)

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