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Testosterone to TREAT prostate cancer - are they crazy? No - it just may work. (mHSPC)

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Posted 9/5/2016 7:26 AM (GMT 0)
I know I've posted about this before, but it's worth mentioning twice, along with some thoughts about sequencing of therapies that include BAT, docetaxel, and maybe radiation too.

Testosterone to TREAT prostate cancer - are they crazy? No - it just may work. (mHSPC)

This one is about BAT for men who are metastatic but still hormone sensitive. The other one is a fuller explanation geared to men who are metastatic but castration resistant.

Testosterone to TREAT prostate cancer - are they crazy? No - it just may work. (mCRPC)
Posted 9/5/2016 2:55 PM (GMT 0)
This is pretty good news Allen. I worry about things like that in my situation, g5-4, 6 of 12 with high core volume and clean scans, psa of only 10. I'm at the 1 year mark post sbrt and adt and plan 1 more year of adt. Although hopeful for full remission, it is what it is. Recurrence is very possible for a variety of reasons but the advances you share give a positive light to the subject. Regards, Bill.
Posted 9/5/2016 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
Bill-

You had SBRT for high risk? That's rare - who did it? I like to keep track of who offers that. Was it someone in San Antonio? Was it as part of a clinical trial? One nice thing about extreme hypofractionation is that it may not require extended hormone therapy with it. I know Dr King puts a 9-month maximum on it (although he allows worried patients to choose longer duration).

Also, what do you mean in your signature by "180 cGy"? How many SBRT treatments did you have? SBRT is usually done with 35-40 Gy in 4 or 5 treatments at about 7-8 Gy per treatment. That translates to 3500-4000 cGy at 700-800 per treatment.
Posted 9/5/2016 3:25 PM (GMT 0)

I started my 9 week treatment today with 45 visits scheduled just before I start work. It will be 180 cgy dose with a machine called Varian Rapid Arc Triology model. Pretty well routine with nothing outstanding to comment on. I thank all the members who helped me get to this point in one piece, and moving forward. It is a humbling experience to realize in order to deal with this cancer you must be able to accept help, that being the hardest for me. I look forward to a positive outcome solely as a result of the Healing Well Forum.

This is what I found in a search Allen. I could have terms wrong and if so correct them as needed. I'm far from being fluent in the subject. Does that help any? Bill

Posted 9/5/2016 3:37 PM (GMT 0)
There will be no shortage of Stage 4 men lining up to try this if they can get the insurance companies to go along with it..Those trying this treatment will spend a lot of time in doctors offices and hospitals being injected, monitored, tested, scanned..A gold mine for the oncology profession...See you next week !
Posted 9/5/2016 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
RioMedinaBill- I believe you will have the typical IMRT treatment of 180 centiGray each day, given for 45 daily treatments, = 8100 centiGrays total (180 cGy x 45 = 8100 cGy). You can also express dose this in Grays: 1.8 Gy daily x 45 days = 81 Gy total. But you do not get SBRT (SBRT requires only 5 treatments, and gives a very high dose each treatment).
Posted 9/5/2016 5:33 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you Gemlin, I finished the 45 treatments earlier this year. I have since put my priorities to getting my stamina back and living life vs. being worried about what might happen. Recently I have had to deal directly with alcohol abuse as that had pushed me to a breaking point. The result was a car rollover accident 7 weeks ago that caused compression fractures in t1-2, 3 and 4. Another 5 weeks in a brace and I should be able to get back to work. Needless to say I haven’t spent much time here or thinking about my pc. I just thought Allen’s post deserved a positive comment from my perspective.
Posted 9/5/2016 5:48 PM (GMT 0)
That's called IMRT, not SBRT. I'm sorry to hear about the alcohol problem and the car accident. Now that the pressure of treatment is over, I hope you have some relief from the mental stress, and can concentrate on your recovery from both. Best wishes!

- Allen
Posted 9/5/2016 6:04 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Allen, I'm happy to say everything is alot better now. I'll try and do better with terms/etc but once again feel free to correct me if It's not right. I understand the impact it may have on others. Bill
Posted 9/5/2016 7:44 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the info and current analysis Allen. This puts all the data at my fingertips for a discussion with my MO down the road. I seriously want to consider moving onto BAT earlier rather than waiting for resistance to occur. While I know there will not be any completed new studies in the time frame I am looking at, I am looking at it from a palliative angle exclusively with emphasis on QOL. I know lifelong HT can ruin my physical and mental health and that is my second greatest fear in this malady (progression to resistance being my first).

Testosterone is cheap. Since I signed a release for my MO acknowledging all care is palliative, would it not make sense to have BAT on the table as an option for me? Even without Phase III studies, etc.? I don't know...

thanks again! this is an awesome resource for BAT education.

rf
Posted 9/6/2016 1:26 AM (GMT 0)
RF-
I hear what you're saying about the improved QOL, and I fully concur. Here's the problem - some guys got a lot worse while on BAT, and we don't yet have readily available tools to sort out which guys get better from which get worse.It seems like guys with higher PSAs and more mets improved the most, but these are really small studies.

It may be that your ProstVac+Chemo is a good set-up for BAT. (btw - it seems to be working great for you!) Based on some of the lab studies, it may be a good sequence, but we just don't know. I would guess that some SBRT of mets may help the ProstVac work even better - but it's just a guess. I wish I could just get behind BAT completely right now. What I and you can get behind is the improvement in QOL.
Posted 9/6/2016 1:30 AM (GMT 0)
how come there are two threads with the same subject?

Did someone have a few too many beverages at the Labor Day BBQ?

Andrew
Posted 9/6/2016 1:40 AM (GMT 0)
It wasn't me, honest! Bill
Posted 9/6/2016 2:57 AM (GMT 0)
Andrew-
Remember in kindergarten we had to look at two drawings and circle the things that were different? OK - below are the two titles - circle the thing that is different (use pretend crayon - don't mark up your computer screen). I'll even give you a color hint.

Testosterone to TREAT prostate cancer - are they crazy? No - it just may work. (mCRPC)
Testosterone to TREAT prostate cancer - are they crazy? No - it just may work. (mHSPC)

And if you follow the links, you will see they link to entirely different articles.

And FYI, I just came back from cocktails at the beach, not beers at a BBQ - two very different things!
Posted 9/6/2016 3:55 PM (GMT 0)
sadly, not all of us benefited from a kindergarten education...
Posted 9/7/2016 2:02 AM (GMT 0)

InTheShop said...
sadly, not all of us benefited from a kindergarten education...

yeah

But this is some interesting stuff, that's for sure!
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