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approaches to resistance training while on ADT & aerobic vs resistance training ?

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Posted 9/1/2017 4:24 AM (GMT 0)
was reading lots of past posts on this forum and on web related to challenges of doing exercise while
on long term adt due to ADT side effects like fatigue, depression, etc
and also about loss of muscle mass, weight gain, and bone effects of ADT and how
exercise can help with some of those, besides other positive effects of exercise.

Came upon this study on the web:
http://www.hematologyandoncology.net/archives/june-2016/resistance-exercise-training-in-patients-with-genitourinary-cancers-to-mitigate-treatment-related-skeletal-muscle-loss/

which is too complex for me to understand most of it, but 2 things caught my attention
related to actually doing exercise - and trying to understand how to deal with those
as part of doing exercise while on adt

1. study said that aerobic exercise can have some negative effect on gains made
doing restistance training
- from the study
Furthermore, exercise training to improve work capacity (ie, peak oxygen consumption, or peak Vo2) may compete with training to improve or maintain skeletal muscle mass. The competing goals of aerobic and resistance training are often referred to as the interference effect, in which aerobic exercise has the potential to deleteriously affect muscle hypertrophy (increase in lean muscle mass) and strength development, depending on its frequency and duration.33 Although training to improve peak Vo2 may separately improve insulin sensitivity, it may do nothing to improve or maintain muscle mass


2. study said that different approaches to doing resistance traing
need to be used for different goals (I think they are taljing about
which exercises/muscle groups, number of reps, number of sets,
and so on)

from the study
As will be expounded upon in this review, resistance exercise training with the goal of maintaining or increasing muscle mass must be dosed differently than resistance training for strength endurance, maximal strength, or other purposes

and later

Different types of exercises, percentages of one-repetition maximum (1RM), numbers of repetitions and sets, and amounts of rest time between sets can elicit different physiologic effects and adaptations in skeletal muscle by targeting different energy systems and muscle fibers

For example, although both Galvao and colleagues and Segal and colleagues used a 12-week, 2- or 3-times-weekly resistance training intervention in patients undergoing ADT for prostate cancer, with a 16- to 24-repetition training volume per exercise, the targeted muscular effects were quite different.37,42 According to ACSM resistance training guidelines, the prescription of Segal and colleagues of 60% to 70% of 1RM with a 16- to 24-repetition training volume would be classified as a muscular endurance prescription. In contrast, the prescription of Galvao and colleagues of 60% to 85% of 1RM promotes a combination of muscular strength, hypertrophy, and endurance. Thus, the -prescription of Segal and colleagues primarily increased muscle endurance with regard to musculoskeletal outcomes, and that of Galvao and colleagues increased muscle strength, muscle endurance, and quadriceps thickness, aligning the measured outcomes with the intent of the prescription.


===> am totally confused, am trying just to get better with doing the aerobic
exercise bike routine and getting better with the dumbells and exercise machines -
now that am on ADT, and realize it will all be a challenge going forward
just to do the exercise

--- and then to read as in 1. above that aerobic exercise can have neg effects
on the resistance training to help muscle and bone side effects

--- and to read as in 2. above that unless I do certain number of reps and some
certain % of IRM (one repetition maximum - what does that mean and how
does one figure out how to translate this to how many reps and sets


===> Thus in context of exercise to help with some adt side effects on muscles and bones, can anyone comment or clarify about the things mentioned above from this study and/or their own personal views on how they see this study findings as to the importance to focus on only certain exercises/muscle groups;

on what study says to do only certain reps and sets approaches

and finally what study says about to not let aerobic exercise interfere
with the strengh/resistance training
Posted 9/1/2017 10:13 AM (GMT 0)
Look up Gunner34. I think he's explored that pursuit quite a bit.

I personally have long used the Nautilus method for weights. It's a single set method, reaching muscle failure in (for me) between 8 and 12 reps. Once you can do a given exercise more than 12, up the weight until it's back at 8 again, and just keep going. It's surprising how that can progress if NOT on ADT. While on ADT, I had trouble just holding in place, and seemed to slowly lose capability.

As we age, we have to be careful of joints too. In the last year or so, I've had to limit weight progress since my joints here and there started to complain. If on ADT, that's not likely to be a problem, but just something to keep in mind.

I do what I consider a time-efficient workout. 10 minutes aerobic warmup on an elliptical (minimal joint impacts), a 20 minute weight circuit hitting all the major muscle groups at a fast enough pace to keep my heart rate aerobic, and then a 10 minute warm down, mildly aerobic. In 40 minutes, it's a pretty thorough workout. Doing all of those weight machines to failure in rapid order means I have to mind the sequence, so I'm not hitting the same muscles twice in a row (for instance, don't follow a shoulder press with a tricep machine).

The goal for me has been to apply some stress to the bones to promote their strength, and do some aerobics for heart health and general stamina. No one on ADT is going to be entering body-building competitions!
Posted 9/1/2017 12:48 PM (GMT 0)
Way too complicated! Just trying to stay alive and fit enough to do daily activities and play golf! I'm on my third ADT regimen. Knowing what to expect in terms of joint pain and strength loss and wanting to avoid it , this time I workout daily and look forward to it. Golf 2 x week, 40-50 minutes of exercise bike, 20 minutes of resistance ( weights, machines, bands) and ten minutes of core work on alternate days. If I don't do this I'll feel like crap and start feeling sorry for myself.
Bob
Posted 9/1/2017 4:58 PM (GMT 0)
Redwing,

thanks for the info on how you approach it re the sets/reps.

I realized that the study was in effect saying something like
"Here is the way we have found the best to do the reps and sets,
and when to go up in weight, and how fast to do it, etc"
but the language was too technical by far.

How you approach it all is helpful - as to how fast you do it, the separation of machines
as to muscle groups, you move up to the next weight, number of reps, etc.

For sure I have not been moving up in weight fast enough - for fear of injuring something even though we are talking about small weights of the dumbells I use.
Am talking about months before moving up even 1 or 2 lbs, and realize that is not
helpful. That is, I can do the full 12 or 16 reps each time, each set, but just don't move up in weight.

and i probably take too long between each exercise, since am watching tv during it, and time seems to pass. thus am missing opportunity to get some aerobic exercise during that.

am trying to stick with the dumbbells so I don't get dependent on going to a gym
when I might not be able to later or when caregiving duties for someone else
don't allow it - but have been doing some machines at a nearby one lately.

problem is, can't emulate everything could do on a machine with dumbells, esp the leg exercises - a hassle adding different amts of weight to the ankles using those leg weights.

I try to walk 2-3 miles a day, its very slow and I'd never get fast enough to be aerobic, at least at this point, though later on ADT I guess that could happen,
(when my aerobic capacity is less)

I ride exercise bike for 1 hour, trying to get to the 70-85% of age related max
that have read defines aerobic, though so far just get to 70-75% for 20-30 minutes of that hour.

trying to do some yoga or other exercises said to be helpful for bones, but seem to not be following this too well.

Am not able to jog or bounce or ride a real bike or swim or hike/walk in hilly areas
or use treadmill or elliptical (damaged my toes on those years ago).

Again, thanks for the info - will try to improve my workouts in that context.
Posted 9/1/2017 5:07 PM (GMT 0)
Break60,

sounds like you are doing all the right things re exercise, and its great to hear
that you enjoy it and it helps you avoid feeling sorry for yourself.

Thats important info and concept to me - that someone could enjoy something while on adt.

am concerned about that, not to mention
the fatigue, depression, harder to focus on tasks or multitask as before, conceptual effects - all of those that can
be side effects of adt, for which am hoping exercise can help, even if a bit.
(besides the muscle, bone and cardio positve effects from exercise)
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