Does Tumeric mask prostate cancer by lowering uPSA values not slowing prostate cancer cells down?

These recent studies are certainly worth discussing with your doc. However, they all seem to have been done on patients with prostates. I started taking a product with tumeric a couple of months after my RP and about a year after that I replaced this 4-in-1 capsule with larger (and cheaper) amounts of each bought individually, including tumeric curcumin (I take a number of other phytochemical supplements as well). Looking over my 2 yr 4 mo. post-RP uPSA history, I don't see any effect of the supplements on my PSA. I think PCa lesion formation or growth would overtake any false suppression from supplements.

In any case, the proof is in the pudding. Tell you doc what supplements you are taking, watch your pre- and post-supplement PSA, and judge for yourself.

I was more impressed with the evidence of lesion size reduction seen in patients taking Pomi-T, the 4-in-1 supplement (tumeric, green tea extract, pomegranate extract, and broccoli extract) developed and tested in the British double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized Pomi-T study.

Do your own research! I'm not advocating any supplement for anyone. It's very possible nothing I'm taking has an effect on PCa, but (1) the phytochemicals probably help reduce inflammation, thought to be one of the basic mechanisms of PCa formation and other diseases; and (2) based on the many in vitro studies (and some in vivo ones), some phytochemicals may have an effect on PCa, and recent studies have proposed some may be synergistic -- the effect of a combo may be greater than the sum of the individual effects. I've weighed the risk/benefit of the plant-based compounds I'm taking..

Be aware that some supplements may be worse for PCa! The are also an expense, and you can make a case for just eating healthy!

Djin

I don't know, but I suspect, it could mask your actual PCa status by artificially lowering PSA.

These types of threads really interest me, why, because we all want our psa to go down. Some have it go down with supplements, CBD, diet, etc...... Now, say we have had radiation therapy, surgery, etc... and after a while it starts to creep. Most go on ADT to lower psa levels. So what really is the difference here? If you are able to lower it with supplements, isn't that a good thing? And how is that "masking" it, isn't ADT masking as well? Lets not get started with how much certain forms of ADT cost, im guessing that might be a small factor in regards to a doc prescribing it?
Inquiring minds would like to know. Oh, and I'm not talking about people who havent had treatment yet.

ldog, I think there is a difference between things. Masking would be suppressing PSA without doing anything about the cancer--in other words, the PSA is going down, but the cancer is still increasing. This would give a false sense of security--"My PSA is going down, therefore my cancer is at bay!" Actual treatment of the cancer would have the cancer shrinking, and the PSA indicating such. So, the real question is...does Turmeric, or whatever, actually treat the cancer?

Not sure, but was this the page you wanted to link too? When I try to go to your link it comes up with page not found.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/nbk83261/

The research, per this article https://pcnrv.blogspot.com/2019/04/if-you-are-using-psa-to-monitor-your.html, was not promising for curcumin, a a turmeric extract. People taking the placebo were able to avoid hormone therapy for 18.5 months vs. 16.3 months with those men who took curcumin.

"Many men rely on PSA to monitor prostate cancer progression. It may be misleading to use a supplement that may invalidate this important test. If there were any valid clinical studies indicating a true benefit, the corruption of a biomarker might be forgivable. But curcumin has only shown a benefit to mice so far. Patients must be wary of any supplement whose benefit is only supported by mouse/lab studies, and which only seems to affect PSA measurements. It is entirely possible to treat PSA without actually treating the cancer."

I can't find anything that contradicts the above.

Perhaps men who have had RT as their primary treatment need to be more careful about PSA masking then RP men, since their post-op PSA levels are higher -- signifying to me that there are some PSA-producing prostate cells that remain viable.

Djin

Post Edited (DjinTonic) : 1/9/2020 1:00:33 PM (GMT-7)

The whole supplement issue is a difficult one. My thinking has been that if (1) I'm reasonably certain that there is little risk of toxicity for a substance by staying within the dosages used in human studies, and (2) there is good in vitro evidence of an effect on PCa cells with identified mechanisms of action, then I don't want to wait 20 years to read "X works!" and I would have been off had I been taking it all this time ;)

Obviously you have to limit your choices: dozens of phytohemicals have some in vitro anti-PCa action.

Djin

Post Edited (DjinTonic) : 1/9/2020 2:14:38 PM (GMT-7)

my uses turmeric for arthritis. Works for her.

She also made this really good curry dish with turmeric.

Then there is the turmeric/ginger tea she drinks - now that one is just weird.

note that none of this has affected her PSA at all ...

Yes Djin Tonic. Read on and you will see what they were feeding the 17% more men who went on to develop prostate cancers, and how the study was stopped. IMO, this trial was flawed and did nothing but cost tons of money.

Post Edited (Italatin8) : 1/9/2020 2:56:48 PM (GMT-7)

Again, I think we need to be very careful when looking at this sort of thing (and the same skepticism applies to any treatment). First, draw a line between men who have been treated for PCa, and those who have not. Men with a whole, functioning prostate need to know that doing things that lower or maintain low PSA only means that they are maintaining a low PSA. They are not preventing or controlling cancer. This has been argued, not only on this forum but in numerous studies for a long time.

And then, for men who HAVE been treated for PCa, PSA remains the best marker (easy to administer regularly, low in cost, highly reliable) for detection of disease progression or recurrence. While there is still debate about what the trends mean, and what the decision points are, the fact remains that PSA is a critical tool for post-treatment PCa patients.

With that in mind, I remain leery of doing things that affect PSA, unless they are proven to also provide cancer control (ADT comes to mind), simply because a dropping PSA will automatically give a sense of relief--that frequently is unwarranted.

Something that I had not thought about came to light in a review article on pomegranate. Pemegranate studies have had very variable results -- some finding benefit, some none.

A Review of Pomegranate in Prostate Cancer [2017, Full Text]

"Conclusions
Pomegranate juice and extract are safe but did not significantly improve outcomes in BCR patients in a large placebo controlled trial. However a subset of BCR patients with the MnSOD AA genotype appear to respond positively to the antioxidant effects of pomegranate treatment. Phase II trials of 100% pomegranate products in neoadjuvant patients and patients with mCRPC were negative. A multi-component food supplement showed promising results in a phase II study in active surveillance and BCR patients."
[Emphasis mine]

This brings up an interesting topic. We are learning about the very different behaviors of PCa depending on the genetics of your cancer. It is logical to me that just as the response to ADT, chemo- and immumotherapy, and RT vary person to person, the response to different phytochemical might well also. (The above study states that about 25% of men have the genotype that appears to respond to pomegranate -- certainly not enough for broad studies to register benefit, but a different story, perhaps, if you're in the subgroup.

Djin.

Post Edited (DjinTonic) : 1/10/2020 6:00:00 AM (GMT-7)