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Posted 12/1/2006 12:23 AM (GMT 0)

Hi Bill - Congradulations on your choice. I know the weight must  be lifting from your shoulders now that you've made your decision. I for one will be anxiously awaiting your updates as I recover from my surgery Dec. 6. Your posts have always been articulate and encouraging. Keep your mach up pal.

regards;

George

Posted 12/2/2006 1:55 AM (GMT 0)

Thanks for your kind words George.  I made an appointment with my radiation oncologist for the 14th of December - first I could get.  We can share our experiences as we journey through this.  I'm so much more fortunate than many here that I almost feel guilty.  I think that we will do well.

Regards,

Bill

Posted 12/12/2006 1:24 AM (GMT 0)
Hi… Bill & Mama Jetguy,   Goodness ~ where has the time gone?…   I had planned to respond once I got to Louisiana on 11-30 but my sister’s computer was down.    I wanted to take time to read postings before I sat down to get caught up!  I know you've seen my welcome back message but I needed to touch base with you personally :)  as with Geobet, Biker90, John, etc...  my friends.... I missed you all!  but I'm back now!  Buddy & I plan to snuggle down for the winter.     I waved at you from the stormy skies of Texas as we flew in and out of Houston.   I said a silent prayer for you to be safe with the ice in Dallas.   Your appointment is on Thursday the 14th ~ our thoughts will be with you.   I’m looking forward to learning with you as you travel this path.   Bill ~ I hope you know we are all 100% behind you with the decision to go with the IGRT.     That’s what this forum is all about ……”Sharing” so others can learn.   “All”...... Threads & Postings here on this forum are so important.   It lets us know there are options out there….   And this reaffirms that we are not alone!!!!!   And this knowledge takes away some of the fear!!!!!   I am soooooooo thankful… you came on board ~ my friend.   What’s really neat is "your" complete journey up to this day is here and you’ve kept it going.     When the time is right…. Let me know and I will add IGRT (Image Guided Radiation Therapy) Treatment to the title of this thread.   It truly amazes me to see that there are over 1057 views.     It’s pretty obvious your journey is “Extremely” important to many.     Let’s flash back 1 Month…….Remember this…..?????   Revised this posting on 12-15   deleted partial quotes... they are all in this thread! Just reading previous postings shows us a man who ~ was and is ~ willing to share so much with us and in doing so..... will let others know they are not alone in being unhappy, worried, and scared!!!    The note you received about inner strength!!!!   It is so evident in your postings from Day 1 / October 2006…..   Your inner strength begins to unfold as you start with your 1 st posting.     It is a wonderful feeling to see this happen before our very eyes.   I am truly happy to call you my friend.   Thank you for taking our hand and allowing us to walk with you!   Now ~ about that “get-together”….. How about a cruise for all of us!   WOW wouldn’t that be a blast.   If I win the lottery…. I’d pay all our ways.   Oops… I haven’t played the lottery….   Okay…How about Ed McMann?……   Maybe he’ll show up at my door.   Who knows… it just might happen ~ someday.   I’ll close for now…. Keeping you extra close in thoughts and prayers.   Hugs to you and mama! And kisses to baby William.   In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy
Posted 12/13/2006 12:28 AM (GMT 0)

Hello Bluebird, welcome back home - glad to have you back.

I just re-read all of my posts and  -  I was a real mess when I started this journey.  I'm kind of embarrassed about the whole thing, but I guess that others need to know they are not the only ones who are unhappy and worried and scared.  If it weren't for that, I'd edit every post of mine out of here, but I got the benefit from others, so others should get the benefit of mine. 

My appointment with my radiation oncologist is the day after tomorrow (Dec. 14) and I'll let you know soonest what I learn.  I sure hope we make a firm plan with dates and times and the whole nine yards.  I need to get going on this thing.

Young William is with us five days a week while his mom and dad are at work.  I had forgotten what a good mom Jan is.  She's a natural and she loves it.  Hanging around Nana's house when you are a baby is real good duty.  I'd ship over for duty like that.  I'll be back in a day, or two.

Regards,

Bill

Posted 12/13/2006 1:50 AM (GMT 0)
Bill *Jetguy…. Embarrassed is not a word that comes in to play here Honesty and Heart is all that I see and that others see.   Your journey is sooooooooooooo IMPORTANT !!!! I'm glad you took the leap and joined us.   And to see the strength that grows from sharing….is what we need on this forum! You are a true friend to all of us.   :) Lee & Buddy
Posted 12/13/2006 1:53 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the welcome back and I'm sure Jan is having so much fun with William. Take care and we'll talk again soon. Bye for now...Lee
Posted 12/13/2006 1:48 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, Jetguy. (And greetings from our little piece of Heaven - the "middle-of-nowhere" East Texas!)

No decision is easy. There are so many reasons to choose each one of them - none are elegant, but with each there's a reason to believe in a cure and many, many quality years ahead. Reaching any one of them is a burden-lifter in itself. It is most important to present all sides so those coming in will have the advantage of the widespread knowledge, research, and experiences of every one of us!
Posted 12/13/2006 9:49 PM (GMT 0)
Bill:

Best wishes on your appointment with the oncologist on the 14th. I for one will anxiously be awaiting your post. You joined this forum about a month before me and we've posted and walked this walk for a while. I still remember the comments we both shared about the biopsy procedure. Seems like ages ago now. I know how anxious I was to get mine overwith last week and can only assume you are just as eager. Be well and best wishes my friend and post when you can.

Regards;

George
Posted 12/16/2006 12:42 AM (GMT 0)

Thanks so much for your kind comments and suggestions.

I had my appointment with my radiation oncologist yesterday and was slightly bummed out, so I didn't feel like talking last night.  My uro is an upbeat, positive kind of guy and a very effective communicator.  This guy was less effective and not nearly as positive.  Spent lots of time with me, but was kind of negative.

He explained all of my treatment options and the advantages and disadvantages of each.  Then we concentrated on Image Guided Radiation Therapy (IGRT).  IGRT is basically Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy (IMRT) with daily imaging added to it to locate the prostate before each treatment.  This is done with CT scans, or with implanted seeds (not radio active, or theraputic) and x-rays.  There is a lot more info out there about IMRT. 

We then discussed side effects and after effects in some detail.  Compared to surgery, it seems that radiation provides better continence results and worse potency results.  There are also complications with the rectum, occasionally serious, or long lasting. 

I have been taking saw palmetto for several years to help urination.  He told me that saw palmetto supresses the PSA value and the Gleason score and it was highly likely that both of my scores would have been higher had I not been taking the supplement.  This means that my odds are not as good as the numbers I show below.  He also said that I should talk to my uro because he knows more about prostate cancer.  He said he would always defer to my uro due to his knowledge and experience.  In his opinion and best guess, my Gleason is actually about an 8 and my PSA about a 10.

I hope to talk to my urologist early next week.  If this isn't a show stopper, I intend to continue as planned.  If this happens, I will tell you about the treatment simulation and all else.  It ain't pretty, but none of this is.  As someone here said, there is no elegant solution.

BTW, he thinks that proton beam is slightly better than IGRT.

Keeping My Mach UP,

Bill

Posted 12/16/2006 12:57 AM (GMT 0)
Bill ~   I’m sure glad you felt like talking tonight!!!!     1st thing..….. Here’s a SPECIAL HUG!!!!   Have you noticed how many new members are on now talking and sharing about radiation…and there’s no doubt that “YOU” had something to do with this.   This is how treatments are understood…. When others are willing to take the time ~ that it takes to share the experience…     It’s an emotional roller coaster ~ but once it’s written out it helps not only the newbies but “YOU” as well.   It will help you to process exactly what you heard at your consultations … so keep talking to us ~ okay!!!   Once you’ve processed this information and talked with your urologist… things may be a little clearer.   Take your time and keep us close.   In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy
Posted 12/30/2006 1:28 AM (GMT 0)
12-23 Quote from Jetguy to Parson Hi parson, as you can see, most everyone here chooses surgery. I have chosen radiation which I will begin in January. It seem to me that most of the guys who have surgery just want the thing out of their bodies. I don't care about that, I just don't want to have cancer. I also don't want anybody cutting on my tender body. Regards,   Bill   Hi Jetguy!     * It's me again Margaret....  Whatever that means!!! a girl at work used to say this and laugh her head off!!!  I must have missed something.  (no explanations required... it just seemed like a nice way to start my chirp-chirp-chirping to you!!!)   Anyway.... I don't mean to be a pest!!!!!       but .............   It’s been a little while since we’ve heard from you and just wanted to let you know you’re in our thoughts and prayers.     Any dates yet and as you feel up to talking about it….will you let us know how things are going….   I’m truly interested in the treatment and what it entails.     Reaching out to help others is what Sharing is all about ~ a wonderful form of Caring…   Take care ~ and know we care about you!!!   In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy
Posted 12/30/2006 4:09 AM (GMT 0)
Bill,

Don't let one supposedly professional MD bum you out. One thing is for sure. While there is a lot of variation in prostate cancer there is even more in those who supposedly make their living by being knowledgable about it. Many of us can relate a story similar to the one you just shared and most of us walked away and sought out those who are more approachable and professional. If you still want to look at radiation find another radiation oncologist or find you a good univeristy based medical center where there are known experts. Your PSA and Gleason were about where mine were and my cancer was totally confined. Your probability that it is contained to the prostate is fairly high by the Partin Tables. It is curable!!

Tamu
Posted 12/30/2006 4:52 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Bill,

Glad this thread got bumped up, because had been off the forum for a while and was wondering about you and how your decision-making process was coming, as we are still in the process of ours.

Sorry to hear about that bad experience with a not-so-great doc.  We had our meeting with the oncology guy a few days ago.  He was great (actually used to do surgery, but can't anymore because of neck injury, so got certified in radiation), but we are still leaning toward surgery.  But at least we know if we go with surgery that we really like this guy and can always go to him after surgery if (God forbid) we do need to do any radiation after surgery.

Was this guy recommended by your urologist?  Anyway our guy recommended the image guided thing too, if going with radiation. He also said that proton beam was generating a lot of positive interest, although he doesn't do it yet, but offered some referrals from guys he knows from national conferences, etc.  But having done surgery for many years himself was very unbiased. He was very patient, spent lots of time, answered all questions, and was very knowledgeable and friendly.  I guess we are lucky to have had great interactions with all the docs on every step of this awful journey.

I hope you can find a doctor you are comfortable with that can do your choice of treatment!  Very interested in how your journey through this goes!  Please keep us updated.

Tanya and Ken

 

Posted 12/30/2006 3:17 PM (GMT 0)

Thank you all for your words of wisdom.  I appreciate them a great deal.  Everything is going ok, I just haven't had much to say, but I think I should have kept everyone more up to date.  Here's the latest:

On January 4th, I meet with my urologist and he implants the markers.  On the 15th, I go in for my set up and simulation.  They make the mould I will lie in, tattoo my abdomen and hips (Ithink) to line me up with the lasers and do a CT scan to find out where everything is located internally.  Then the radiation doc, the physicist, the therapist, and the computer figure out my treatment plan.  I'll begin treatment on the 22nd at 2:15 in the afternoon. Once I actually begin doing this, it is my intention to start a new thread so those who are interested won't have to wade through all this other stuff to get information.

I didn't mean to imply that I disliked, or mistrusted my radiation oncologist.  He just doesn't have the upbeat personality that my urologist does.  He has years of experience and is very knowledgable and was recommended by my uro.  (Radiation oncologist needs an abbreviation.  How about radist?)  When I told my uro that I wanted to do radiation instead of surgery, I told him that I thought he handled me well and that I trusted him.  He said that was great and that he was my doctor until I fired him. 

Proton beam therapy is being done in Loma Linda, Houston, Boston, and I think in Florida.  The one in Indiana may be pediatric only, or still in trials.  I don't know for sure.  My neighbor had proton beam four years ago and was very happy with the result.  He had side effects similar to IGRT, or IMRT.  The IGRT is so close to the same results that I can't justify spending five days a week out of town.  I mean the expense and the being away from home.  I'd have to rent an apartment and the logistics would be a mess.  If you Google IMRT you will find much more information.

Once again, I thank you much for your concern and interest.  I means a great deal to me.

Regards,

Bill

Posted 12/30/2006 11:57 PM (GMT 0)
Hi.....Bill *Jetguy,   Thank you for the update on your schedule.   You sound like you’re set to go!!! And this in itself gives the mind and body something tangible to head toward.   Your journey ~ has and will ~ stimulate good learning/knowledge for radiation.   You’re thread(s) ~ have and will ~ teach us and educate us to the treatment of radiation.   I personally think it’s because you joined us in a very emotional time… opened your hearts to us about your feelings and stayed with us.   We’ve seen you through the decision period and now moving into the treatment stage. I truly feel “Your Journey”…. Is going to shed the light that radiation needs for others to make a well-rounded decision on their treatment options.   The more sharing on this subject/treatment…. The more knowledge we “all” gain.   KNOWLEDGE is POWER…..   and “YOU” are allowing us to walk the path with you and learn .   Thank you ~ Bill …..   our *Jetguy!    Hugs to you, mama Jetguy, and baby William   Friends who appreciate your sharing…… Lee & Buddy
Posted 1/3/2007 3:50 PM (GMT 0)
Jetguy *Bill and mama Jetguy,   It is Wednesday...10:45 a.m.EST and we are thinking of you!   Just wanted you to know…   When you feel a breeze against your cheek tomorrow!!!   It’s all of us letting you know we are with you.   Keep Your Mach UP, In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy
Posted 1/3/2007 11:30 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Bluebird. Yup, tomorrow is day one of my radiation journey. I am looking forward to that breeze against my cheek. Thank you. How different we are. As we were getting into our cars after our flight on the first, my co-pilot said, "Struggle well." I appreciate his sentiment and yours.

Regards,

Bill
Posted 1/4/2007 12:51 AM (GMT 0)

Jet, we all have your back here in forumland! Good luck tomorrow, we will be pullin & prayin for you!

Your friend, Pete

Posted 1/4/2007 8:46 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I had my markers implanted today. Kind of a biopsy in reverse except a bit more unpleasant. You can read the details on another thread if you're interested.

The big deal today is that while I was getting ready, I decided to lift the cover on the ultrasound probe. I didn't check it out before my biopsy 'cause I was too darn scared. I shouldn't have today. That sucker is Big! No wonder it feels like a baseball bat. : ) Lesson learned - there are just some things we don't need to know.

Thanks, Pete. I hated it, but survived it. (I'd still rather go to an all night dentist.) I think I'll consume some adult beverages tonight.

Bill
Posted 1/5/2007 12:52 AM (GMT 0)
Dear Jetguy!!!!   Our friend Bill,   You do have a since of humor!!!   Buddy looked at the HUGE tube of Jelly and then the HUGE probe next to it…. And when the nurse walked in and popped her gloves on!!!!!!! With a loud snap…. He knew he was in a place he really didn’t want to be.   Somethings are best left to the imagination… but then again… .maybe not :)   Jetguy ~ in closing this thread.. I want to personally thank you for your commitment to sharing the next stepping-stones in your journey to becoming prostate cancer free.   You gave yourself to all of us and the bond will always be there!     Reading through so many of your postings… here and on other threads….. (did I say “many’ J   )   hmmmm I think you surprised yourself with doing this and also I think you are still surprised at the number of views this Thread has received.   You have become a very important part of this knowledge base along with John *Jeb187chs, JustJulie, and many others !!!!!!!!   Expanding all of our knowledge in “YOUR DECISIONS” .   Radiation has come a long way… and so many of us don’t understand it.   And I personally thank you for allowing us to learn along side you and others on this forum.   Please ~ don’t ever stop reaching out for our ~ Helping Hands…. Because if truth be told… We need you!!! ~ as much as you need us! This path is best traveled with friends ..Truly..   I am glad you are “ my ” / “ our ”   friend ….     Even if we are different ~ as you stated above… “How different we are.”   Yes ~ you are man and I am woman……………… Hear me ROAR!!!!!   Or should that be CHIRP~CHIRP~CHIRP !!!!!   I love you in a “special way” Jetguy and I don’t use that word lightly.   Take care and have a "sip" for me in toast to a new dawn!   In Friendship ~ Lee & her Buddy   p.s. Hugs to Baby Wiliam…. Kiss him where whiskers would grow… that’s the spot I like to nuzzle on babies….       SPECIAL NOTE to YOU!!!!   Our Forum "Family" & Friends...  For those who have contributed to over 68 postings and for those who have viewed this thread totaling over …. 1553 views…   We are moving to a New Thread…. Radiation – a journey Started by the owner of this Journey   ~   Jetguy *Bill     *Am I happy I started this thread …   Jetguy’s Page… Welcome Friend :)   ??? Words cannot tell you how ~ heartfelt ~ this thread has become ~ to me and   ~ for me. It all started with the Thread…. The hardest thing for me....   *So you see ~ the answer is a definite…. “YES”…   This is a journey that started with DAY 1….. and it is a very clear picture as to how important “YOU” are to this forum…   Yes ~ I said “YOU!!!!”… the individuals reading this Thread / Forum and to those who ~ Post Replies ~ to this post / forum.   Thank you for letting me CHIRP ~ CHIRP ~ CHIRP…. As mama bluebirds have a tendency to do when they are watching over their loved ones.   Each of you are family….. and that means there is a love that connects us all.   I will close by saying….   Thank you Jetguy!   For continuing the journey… with all of us on your new thread:   Radiation - a journey     Keeping you close ~ always!!! In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy   Our Journey ~ Sharing is Caring     Helpful Hint:   to find Threads listed above.... Click on Thread name that is underlined and it will take you directly to the Thread! Once it opens up …you may see weird symbols in the body of the post. Hit the REFRESH button to clear them…   :)  
Posted 1/5/2007 2:13 AM (GMT 0)

Dear Bluebird  -  oh my, oh my, oh my .  .   .

The hardest thing for me - I had forgotten.  As I read it now it brings tears to my eyes and they are tears of gratitude.  I am still surprised how difficult this is for me to express myself.  I love all of you, but I am overcome by emotion, so I'm out of here.

Bill

Posted 1/5/2007 12:12 PM (GMT 0)
Bill, here's a big hug for you! kat
Posted 1/7/2007 1:38 PM (GMT 0)

JetGuy,

You are such an inspiration!  After reading your post describing the marker implantation and impending process of your treatments, I was floored...and a 75 mile mile round trip for 8 1/2 weeks?  Darn right you better get that 2:00 pm time slot! We'll keep routing for you and sending that positive "light" to Dallas!

And 7 1/2 years!!! WOW! I know how proud of your daughter you must be and am thrilled for you all!  What a great success story! :-)

Posted 1/16/2007 11:09 AM (GMT 0)

Dear All,

As usual, I have awakened in the middle of the night so that I can think and enjoy some useless worrying.  This is mostly an exercise in frustration, but I occassionally have a worthy thought that I no longer remember when I get up in the morning.  Today I experienced the indignity of my simulation (Radiation - a Journey).

When I first learned that I had prostate cancer I thought, "What an inelegant way to die."  I am by nature and training a fighter.  Never give up.  If an engine quits, fly the airplane to a successful outcome.  Always fly the airplane no matter what is happening.  As one wag said, "Fly it till the last piece stops moving."  But in that there is purpose and dignity and .   .   and something.  I don't know.  Purity of intent and purpose and idealism and satisfaction for a job well done and  -  ego permitting, a bit of glory.  "No guts, no glory."

In prostate cancer there is submitting to people sticking things into orifices of your body that aren't made to have things stuck in them.  It's humiliating and uncomfortable and sometimes painful.  You lie there and submit.  And then there is impotence.

I am certain that the young ladies who are participating in my treatment would find the thought of a guy my age being a sexual creature somewhat disgusting.  My wife and I have decided that what will be will be.  Life will go on.  Nothing lasts forever.  And yet .   .    we do live and feel and desire.  And then we submit.

When I first learned of my cancer, I gave serious thought to saying the hell with it.  I'd rather be dead than put up with all this indignity and misery and simply being the object of someone helping me by sticking things in my butt and penis.  Ain't no glory in any of this.  Then there is my grandson who is sweet and wonderful and who I would like to know for many years.

One way I handle all of this humiliation is the realization that to them I'm just another old guy.  Well, I'm an old guy to me, too.  But not just another.  I'm the only one I have.  Without this old guy's mind and body I am not.  I do not exist.  "To be, or not to be.  That is the question.  Whether 'tis better to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune .   .    "  Or something to that effect.  Prostate cancer is outrageous fortune.  Many have it much worse.  Children with cancer - it is heartbreaking.  A man my age with cancer is not a tragedy, but it's no fun either. 

I guess what upsets me the most is that there is so little that I can do about it.  I eat right and exercise and all that, but it doesn't amount to much.  I can't get my gun and shoot it.  I can't beat it into bloody submission with my fists.  I can't have greater will and intensity and kill it by being stronger and harder.  Instead, I take my pants off and let others stick things in my butt and penis and mark me with tattoo's.  And then there is my grandson, who smiles every day when he sees me.  A great big smile with big, bright blue eyes.  The same color as mine.

Now comes the big question.  Do I delete, or post? 

Posted 1/16/2007 12:09 PM (GMT 0)
You are really something Jet! Delete? I think not! That was the best, most sincer and motivating posts I have read in this forum or any forum! Talk about speaking from the heart, I think that came from your soul! You have hit the nail on the head so many ways. Over and over I try to post here about my feelings and emotions and somehow it never comes out exactly the way I mean it. Then I read your post and your words say it perfectly! Don't delete Jet, don't ever delete! I beleive that you speak for some many of us here who can't put our feeling in print the way you can. Thanks Jet! Thanks for speaking for me and so many others here who know exactly what you mean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep em comin!!
Your friend, Pete
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