ADT3 for localized PC; any experience?

I was browzing Dr Leibowitz's web site today and read about 10 of his published papers. He talked about treating localized PC with Lupron, Casodex and Proscar for 13 months then maintenance with Proscar. His results seeemed impressive with only a small % of patients needing a 2nd treatment. These results are better than either RP surgery or radiation with the benefit of no side affects after the 13 months and still leaving all other treatment options still available.

I know a lot of you are on this protocol after failed surgery or radiation or for mets,; I also know that this protocol is commonly used for 3-6 mos before radiation. Has anyone done this protocol alone without surgery or radiation? Are his results real? Any comments would be appreciated.

JohnT

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Diagnosed 10-08 at 63 with PSA of 33

PSA was 4.4 in 1999 and has risen steadily.

Had 13 biopsies and an endorectal MRI, all negative until 10-08. Two cores out of 25 with a gleason 6

2nd opinion with an oncologist said cancer found was insignificant, but suspected larger tumor somewhere.

Doppler ultrasound with target biopsy indicate a large tumor in the transition zone, gleason 7.

Bone and CT scans negative.

PSA3= 43; (high normal is 35)

Scheduled for Combidex MRI in Feb. (Lymph node imaging MRI done in Holland).

location of tumor makes positive surgical margin unlikely.

Looking at IMRT with hormone therapy as soon as staging is complete with Combidex MRI.

Changed diet, eliminated all meat and dairy. Taking the normal supplements recommended for PC.

JohnT

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Post Edited By Moderator (TC-LasVegas) : 1/24/2009 10:20:06 AM (GMT-7)

John T (et al)- I posted once before on a person I know that has done this, kind of like a pioneer for us to look at these days. He took his chances on this 12-14 yrs. ago (1996 actually). Here is the awesome story from another Michigan guy, that I met at my support group and have called by phone a couple years ago to see how he was still doing. (I care about our choices big time)

Rick K. is his name he was in his early 50's when diagnosed, I am looking at my notes right now that I know about his case. His bPsa 10.8 4 cores found with Pca, was given Gleason 5 (2+3) and this was never reviewed by an expert (local pathology guy)....it is rare to see anybody with less than a 6 gleason (but is possible), he believed he was T2b stage, not sure on the DRE (my guess is it was positive).
He did Dr. Leibowitz program herein Michigan under a different doc (most likely was an onco-doc, I believe he got the information from PAACT.org group). Using the ADT3 combo (Lupron+Casodex+Proscar) for 13 months and quit, except you stay on Proscar for maintenance. (Proscar for me had no noticeable effects when I took it alone, as to side effects)
Well within months Rick says he is completely normal as a man (manhood restored, no issues).
Years going by and his psa in normal range levels now, Rick still decides to get re-biopsies....is the PCa to be found or not????? First re-biopsy nothing found no PCa on pathology. He did this again after some time went by, Rick is nobodys fool and needs to know how effective is this....2nd rebiopsy and nothing found.
It has been like 13 yrs. now and Rick is totally normal as a man, he monitors psa always, but still looking good....."cured".......myself I say maybe at best....and more likely would say "no" he is not cured. Is he stupid for avoiding life altering invasive or more 'heavy duty' modalities upon his person as a patient?????
He can still do all treatments available, however surgery would be more difficult because of shrinkage of the gland using these drugs, makes it harder for the doc to do this, but could still be done.

I KEEP SAYING PCA IS LIKE THE TWILIGHT ZONE- it is crazy world of choices and outcomes.

Now this does not mean that every man whom tries this will achieve identical results....this is the Twilight Zone....there are no guarantees in PCa....if so "show me the money", been looking at everything for many years. However, is Dr. Leibowitz giving the straight up truth, could be, we need more examples and studies or abstract of hundreds of patients, besides his own to be more objective.

Now ask yourself was Rick K. stupid?????????????????? (Rick's psa a few years ago stabil at 1.6 which he still has an intact prostate gland, 2 re-biopsies an nothing found!!!

Oh the maintenance on Proscar or using Avodart.....zufus-s.w.a.g. (scientific wild ass guess as to why???) It shuts down DHT (your body takes normal testosterone and coverts it into this type, which is 5 times more potent than the normal "T" levels....PCa is fueled by "T" and prefers "DHT", that is my swag guess....but I am layperson....and it is the Twilight Zone~~~do~do~do~do~do~do~do (background music)

was Rick K. stupid? no, can't imagine anyone saying or thinking that. rick had or has is options, he made his choice, and sounds like he is sticking to it for now with that kind of long term sucess. Would that work for everyone else in the exact same scenerio, probably not. one thing i have been learning, every human body is different, and it reacts different to almost everything you can think of, and when you factor in some of many variable in PCa, it makes it even more difficult to decide. in the end you have to do what is best for yourself. perhaps one day in the distant future, there will be a better way to make the dx earlier and better understood, and who know what treatments will be thought of years from now.

Hey no disagreement with any of you, David I go along with what you mentioned that early and reliable assessment is the most important variable that needs defining as to when or what to do. I do not believe that this Rick K. is a freak of nature, it is possible that other men could have decent and/or similar results if they were diagnosed with something close to his. What we need to know is further examples of patients in further staging levels and see how they fared as to durations of PCa free or reknewal of drug combo.

You can imagine when Rick K. chose this 12+ yrs. ago, it was a leap of faith that he kind of threw the dice on, it was not well known so much back then. It just shows how bizarre PCa can be as a whole.