HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Do I understand Dr. Samadi when he says lifetyle choice best to prevent PCA?

Support Forums
>
Prostate Cancer
✚ New Topic locked
12 3
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 10/27/2010 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
I understand he is about as good as they come.. But I dont understand:

"lifestyle choices are the best course of action in preventing prostate cancer or other disease."

NY. Oct 27, 2010 - "Robotic Surgery Expert Dr. David Samadi, MD Discusses FDA Warnings on the Effect of GnRH Agonists"

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/robotic-surgery-expert-dr-david-samadi-md-discusses-fda-warnings-on-the-effect-of-gnrh-agonists-105909273.html

So should I now ALSO feel defeated because it was my lifestyle, my decisions that caused this cancer?

Posted 10/28/2010 12:40 AM (GMT 0)
I sometimes lose patience with the "life style' advocates.  There is no doubt that various unhealthy practices such as obesity, smoking and drug use will shorten your life.  But when we are told to eat avocados, drink pomegranite juice and blah blah so we will avoid certain illness, I yawn and walk away.

Statistics prove that you can crunch a number to prove almost any point, but do not always tell the truth.  You can follow all the healthfood  gurus suggestions and still die of cancer at age 40.  I am convinced that heredity, not life style is the prime factor in determining our health.  I know fat smokers who lived to be 90 years old and I know very fit health food advocates who died at 50.

Hey, I think you should live healthy because you will feel better and look better and enjoy your grandchildren.  However I am not convinced that eating choices will do a lot to change your life expectancy. smurf

Posted 10/28/2010 12:41 AM (GMT 0)
bob, dont feel defeated about that thought. for all the "experts" that think that way, there are plenty of others that would strongly
disagree. there are men that are morbidly obese, drink and smoke heavily all their lives, and never get PC or any other cancer. Then there are men that are lean, well toned all their lives, never smoke or drink, even vegans, that get PC and other cancers. my original medical oncologist from my previous non-PC cancers, strongly believed that it was mostly genetics at work. most of us will never, ever know why we got PC.

david in sc
Posted 10/28/2010 10:47 AM (GMT 0)
Then there's the part about "quality of life" versus quanity issue. Not polishing off a half gallon of ice cream from time to time would be hard to do...

Hate to say - but getting killed in a car crash is much more likely to happen then dieing from cancer. And I'm sure with a little effort we can find many experts that will tell you walking 1000 miles to grandma's house is good for you.

Posted 10/28/2010 11:29 AM (GMT 0)
My somewhat humorless surgeon looked at me as if I had 3 heads, when I told him, that rather than have him perform the robotic prostatectomy, he operate instead to convert me to a Japanese vegetarian.

You see, Japanese men (heredity) who eat no meat (lifestyle) have virtually no incidence of PC.

In a hundred years, maybe less, the world will know how, why and when cancer occurs. Until then, we can speculate away!

I have to update my sig., surgery scheduled for 12/30/10. Happy f'n New Year!
Posted 10/28/2010 11:45 AM (GMT 0)
GTOdave said...
My somewhat humorless surgeon looked at me as if I had 3 heads, when I told him, that rather than have him perform the robotic prostatectomy, he operate instead to convert me to a Japanese vegetarian.





I think you probably typed this really fast, so it was a little hard to understand...but did you just say that you'd rather have a prostatectomy than change your diet/lifestyle in such a way that would allow you to forgo the prostatectomy??



Wow!
Posted 10/28/2010 11:50 AM (GMT 0)
Pretty sure he was trying to  say he'd rather have an operation to "convert me to a Japanese vegetarian."
Posted 10/28/2010 1:22 PM (GMT 0)
I guess I missed the news reports that warned every male to disregard what we are brought up being taught about the major food groups.

And also the other news report where all the uro pca specialists tell their patients that instead of surgery, radiation, hormone therapy or death, simply changing their diet was all they needed to do.

And I absolutely think they should stop giving out crazy information such as it being hereditary, meaning that REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING I DO FROM THE MOMENT I AM BORN, I could still end up with the most aggressive form of prostate cancer.

I think GTO has a clue, more than he'd like. And i'm pissed at my situation too!
Posted 10/28/2010 1:31 PM (GMT 0)
" think you probably typed this really fast, so it was a little hard to understand...but did you just say that you'd rather have a prostatectomy than change your diet/lifestyle in such a way that would allow you to forgo the prostatectomy??

Wow!

[Although I'm noting that you have not yet had a prostatectomy, so you have no clue.]
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Casey, these are your exact words to GTO above. Another rude and condenscending post, not sure why the moderators don't call you down on them. Now you know how fast people type, and saying he has no clue, is absolutely unwarranted. You don't know him, or what he knows or doesn't know. You assume an amazing amount in your typical answers. Not in the spirit of HW in my opinion.

David in SC
Posted 10/28/2010 1:48 PM (GMT 0)
I'm reading the book "Ashes to Ashes".  It's a history of the tobacco industry ... and contains parts on lung cancer. 

Early on doctors and researchers (1930's, 40s and 50s) who raised the flag on smoking (lifestyle) causing lung cancer were largely ignored or worse.  It appears to me that most of the docotors who discredited the relationship between smoking and lung cancer were well intentioned (but wrong).  The public liked smoking and gladly continued the practice ... even to today!!!

My point is that based on the smoking analogy, Dr. Samardin is probably right ... but I'll still have an occasional steak on the barby ... I just won't enjoy it as much ... anybody seen my Camels? 

Posted 10/28/2010 1:59 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I have a sense of humor and I 'got' Dave's quip to his doctor...I thought it was funny!

I couldn't get the article to load for some reason, but I have been reading and thinking about the lifestyle connection with prostate cancer. My best guess is that at some point we WILL know for sure that there is a connection between diet and it's influence on hormones, thus prostate cancer and breast cancer. We now know that all those years we spent frying in the sun is a direct contributor to the development of skin cancer, most notably and seriously, melanoma.

Most of us who post here are in our 50's on up. The horse has long left the barn, I guess. I really don't want my husband to spend this time feeling guilty for eating what everyone else did all those years. But I have definitely suggested to my sons that they consider this issue, especially in light of a possible genetic predisposition.

Juliet
Posted 10/28/2010 2:17 PM (GMT 0)
Now now now, let's all relax. My quip to my urologist was just that, a whimsical comment suggesting, that as I already HAVE PC, an operation to turn me into a Japanese vegetarian, where the disease is non-existent, would be a cure. Generally though, my overarching point is that there are genetic/hereditary as well as environmental/life-style causes for PC. The medical community, and ourselves, simply don't yet have a definitive answer.

I do know that any joke that needs to be explained generally loses the humor.

My guess is that Casey59 lacks the "funny bone" that I've always had, and frankly, is the best coping therapy I have at this point.

As to not having a clue about the surgery, perhaps, but I've probably studied the issue as much as anybody. I do know that I'm not afraid of the surgery, but the year after has me rattled.

Let's see if anybody comprehends my amended sig.

Who is that said laughter is the best medicine?
Posted 10/28/2010 2:23 PM (GMT 0)

Steve n Dallas said...
Pretty sure he was trying to  say he'd rather have an operation to "convert me to a Japanese vegetarian."

Dang, Dave, I hope thats what you were saying...that makes a lot more sense.  Steve, thanks for offering up your interpretation.  Dave, sorry if I mis-read. 

It is baffling to think about what people will subject themselves to (surgery, radiation, chemical/hormone treatment) to stop or slow their cancer growth while not undertaking the less radical steps that are within their direct control to slow their cancer growth and prolong life…like diet, nutrition, exercise, etc.  You cannot make the cancer disappear with a change in diet, but really…

Diet/lifestyle is the frontier in cancer prevention...there are substantial differences in the rates of PC in regions with different basic diets.  This fact impacts us (men who already have PC) in two ways...first, the example we set (and the food we serve) to our children and grandchildren.  I'm not only talking to my teenage son about screening early, I'm also talking to him (and showing him by way of example) about a healthy lifestyle.  Our kids lives end up reflecting their parents in many more ways than we think.  Second, although we already have/had PC and a treatment (one or more), many of us are still fighting to slow or stop the growth of PC in our bodies.  Lots of solid evidence out there on ways within our control to do exactly that...most are based on diet and lifestyle changes.

Dave, good luck with your December surgery!

edit:  typo

Post Edited (Casey59) : 10/28/2010 8:28:24 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/28/2010 2:26 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Dave, I didn't see your just-posted response until after posting mine...

"I think, therefore I exist, as a thing that thinks."
Posted 10/28/2010 2:47 PM (GMT 0)
Dr. Samadi said, "lifestyle choices are the best course of action in preventing prostate cancer or other disease." That makes perfect sense to me. In fact, I think he could have said that "Lifestyle choices are the ONLY course of action in preventing prostate cancer."

We can't control our genetic makeup. We can't control the fact that some men may be genetically pre-disposed to the development of prostate cancer.

We can't control that, but to some extent we certainly can control what we eat, what we drink, the environment in which we live, the amount of exercise we engage in, and so forth, any one or all of which may trip that genetic trigger and initiate the growth of cancer.

I don't think Dr. Samadi is necessarily implying that people have "caused" their cancer through lifestyle choices. I think he's simply, and truthfully, saying that in the year 2010, lifestyle changes are the one variable over which we have some degree of control, and which therefore offer the best hope for the prevention of prostate cancer and (hopefully) its recurrence.
Posted 10/28/2010 4:11 PM (GMT 0)
Good points about preventing recurrence. We haven't even begun treatment yet (pre-radiation gold marker implantation tomorrow), but I'm already dreading the periodic PSA tests and all the anxiety around the issue of rising post-treatment PSAs. I feel good about the treatment choice, but I know there are no guarantees.

I'm curious how many of you are avoiding red meat, dairy and sugar. I don't want to take all the fun out of life for my husband, who particularly loves ice cream, but I would just as soon see him go completely off sugar and red meat. For the most part, we rarely eat red meat and he only eats cheese in moderation. Sugar will be the biggest issue.

Ordinarily, I'd think 'all things in moderation', but these aren't ordinary circumstances. For years his diet was bad, and he was sedentary. I think he fits the profile. But as I said I don't want him to dwell on what is done, and I also don't want to be the food police now.

Before we even began all of the research into prostate cancer, at the original appointment with the urologist after the results came in, I asked that doctor if diet played a role. He said "None". Must not be too much consensus on this issue within the medical community.

I feel that if we made the lifestyle changes, it could do no harm and much good with regard to health in general. On the other hand, never eating ice cream again might make it more depressing...maybe for nothing?
Posted 10/28/2010 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Juliet, Don't underestimate your husband's possible willingness to change. It seemed to me that no one in the world would more motivated to seek out an anti-cancer regimen than a cancer survivor who wants to be sure he remains a survivor. A lot of men will "get it." To the comment ("none") that your urologist made...if he was answering the question whether diet changes could make it all go away , then I would agree. There is a preponderance of reliable knowledge that shows that western diet and lifestyle has driven up the rates of PC occurrance...so I hope he wasn't saying "none" to that. I would personally recommend moderation in new diet and lifestyle, but that might depend on the starting point. For example, for me personally, before PC I ate red meat at lunch or dinner (or bacon for breakfast) maybe somewhere between 5-8 times per week (just guessing at this point; however, years ago it was more frequent than that for me). Now, it's maybe once a week on average. If a man was eating red meat every day for lunch and dinner, and bacon multiple times, then dropping down to once a week would be a much bigger step than it was for me. And, yes, I agree that "these aren't ordinary circumstances."  Sounds like you "get it." very best wishes... edit:   Typo-your name.   Noticed from 142’s posting that I spelled your name wrong.   My daughter’s name is Julie, and so my fingers are trained to type that sequence. Post Edited (Casey59) : 10/28/2010 11:53:10 AM (GMT-6)
Posted 10/28/2010 4:56 PM (GMT 0)
Juliet,

You will get responses to this from both ends of the spectrum here - there are radically different opinions on the site.

I have cut back on sugar, as I probably could lose 10 pounds, or more, and not miss them.

I cut back the ice cream years ago, but cut back a little more with my surgery / RT, as I am a bit lactose intolerant, and with the added bowel complications of DaVinci and RT / post-RT, well, we just won't go there.

I did have friends with other cancers tell me that their oncologists were very anti-sugar in any form. They cut back to zero, lost large percentages of their total body weight, and developed other problems. My GP, Rad. Oncologist, and Uro all felt that sugar is not the best thing for you, but that a normal intake has little if anything to do with cancer. What is normal? Another question ...

I spent a half-day with the lead dietician at the hospital trying to understand if I should be doing anything differently, and in the end, she said not much, that a reasonably balanced diet is fine. She did encourage foods that were positive for digestion and bowel function, but was most concerned that I kept a stable weight. Especially during RT, they want stability. I suspect that changes which create stress and sudden weight loss are not wanted at the same time as surgery / radiation. Preparing by making healthy changes early can not hurt, but radical changes would not make sense.

Just my non-medical report of what I was told.

Posted 10/28/2010 5:15 PM (GMT 0)
Juliet,

Your "all things in moderation" is the best rule to follow. There is no proven, sound reason to avoid all dairy, red meats, and
sugar. In my own personal circle, my medical oncol, 3 diff radiation oncol, my GP of 15 years, my Uro of 3 years, and even recently,
the Oncology Dietician at my hospital, all say the same thing: There is no direct proof that any specific diet item caused my PC. Most
feel its genetic level in all probability.

Before the "experts" here jump me, no one is against a heart healthy diet in general, or the classic Mederteranian type diets. This is
good for males and females for their general health.

The one dr. said, that a lot of men, finding out they have PC, want to have "Control" in some way, so they tune into supplements and/or diet related things. But assuming your husband is at least 50 years old or older, the cow is out of the barn, and no amount of dietary change is going to stop, slow down, or ultimately change the outcome in the bigger picture.

We here in America, live in the land of everything "supersized", easy to see why so much of the population is obese. Cut back portion sizes alone is a big help. A small bowl of ice cream isn't going to hurt your husband (assuming he's not diabetic).

Yes, there are some big name doctors that have made good money publishing books that promote radical dietary changes, and good for them, and we can all learn something from them.

But there is no direct ,beyond the shadow of a doubt proof, that any dietary change is going to effect the outcome of PC or any other cancer. And there are many brilliant doctors and researchers that hold that view.

You and your husband have to do what you feel is right for yourselves. No one here, my self included, need to agree or disagree.

Extremes in life usually always turn out to be the wrong choice, moderation in all things is a good rule to follow. And I like to remind people,
that there are lifetime vegetarians and vegans that get PC too.

Good luck

David in SC
Posted 10/28/2010 5:52 PM (GMT 0)
No one really knows what causes prostate cancer and it is most likely a combination of things, predisposition of genes that cause cells to mutate, enviornmental factors that cause cell damage and mutations, such as chemical exposure. Constant trauma or infection that damages cells. Once the cancer cells have started there is a lot of evidence that diet may effect their rate of growth or if they grow at all. It's just like fertilizer making plants grow faster or lack of water making them die. Every major oncologist treating PC has diet as a part of their program; this alone should tell us something.
JT
Posted 10/28/2010 6:51 PM (GMT 0)
I might also add that Japanese have a very high incidence of colorectal cancer.

Go figure !
Posted 10/28/2010 7:14 PM (GMT 0)
Hey BobCape,

You should take responsibility for your actions. Don't you remember? When you were that little sperm wriggling up the slippery channel, you were supposed to zig instead of zagging. Oglethorpe was supposed to get to the egg. But noooo, you had to push him out of the way. Didn't you read the manual? Jeez.
(I guess I didn't read the manual either.)

Jeff

By the way I worked in Japan for many years. In case any of you are considering the Japanese vegetarian swap surgery, go with the prostatectomy. Those guys work too hard all the time. It's not worth it.
Posted 10/28/2010 7:22 PM (GMT 0)

goodlife said...
I might also add that Japanese have a very high incidence of colorectal cancer.

Go figure !

Very interesting, as just this past week, I have read that there is a strong correlation between PC and colorectal cancer. As I quoted earlier in the post, a Japanese (male....obviously) vegetarian has virtually no risk factor for PC. I would be interested to learn how much greater a risk a Japanese red meat eater has of getting PC.

As for me, 10 years ago, I could eat prime rib for lunch and diner, every day and not grow tired of it. about the same time as I thought I had BPH (around 18 months ago), and had no inkling of the coming PC, I lost all taste for red meat. Never decided to stop eating it, I simply was turned off by it. I will always wonder if the body said stop, much like a pregnant woman might crave something her body needs.
Posted 10/28/2010 7:24 PM (GMT 0)
I was a vegetarian for 20 years then mostly fish and very little meat for the next 20.  I also drink lots of coffee, and a daily glass of red wine.  Perhaps this has helped me avoid heart disease and high blood pressure.  I also have kept my weight low.  So no way was I supposed to get any cancer, yet here I am with gleason 7.  I'am very skeptical of any claim that says diet will prevent PC.

age 59 psa 6.3 Nov 2009
gleason 7 (4+3) Dec 2009
HIFU 1-17-10
PSA 0.2  3-4-10 
PSA 0.1 4/14/10
PSA 0.3 7/2/10

PSA 0.3 10/4/10

Posted 10/28/2010 7:39 PM (GMT 0)
eggbe, thanks for posting that, that help proves my point. we have had several other long term vegetarians in your same situation.
✚ New Topic locked
123