PC WILL COME BACK

After reading all your input,it is clear that pc will come back sooner or later.

I think that we need to enjoy every day of our life.

Could be that it never really leaves. We are just able to knock it down for periods of time.

But when you think about it, many diseases act in the same way. Heart attack victims are likely to have another heart attack, strokes, etc.

It is always a good idea whether we have PC or not aware of any malady to enjoy every day we are alive. Could be a picture of health and get hit by a bus tomorrow.

That just the way it is.

I have chosen to deny cancer the food it needs to grow and thrive. I have chosen to starve the cancer cells if there are any floating around. I suggest reading 'The China Study'. We have given ourselves cancer by what we eat and how we live, especially by what we eat. The medical establishment is complicit in its denial of what is making us sick, if not irresponsible.

Cultures that avoid animal protein by necessity (poor countries) have little, if any PCa. I'm talking milk also, a very real threat to getting PCa. How many babies have lived without cows milk? This desease started way, way back in our lives, through no fault of anyone. Who new? So David, I doubt there are very many lifetime vegans anyplace, because as you know, vegans avoid all animal products, including milk, cheese, and even honey. Milk is poison to me now, as is most animal protein. (However, I cheat a little like on Thanksgiving.)

There are direct relationships between diet and cancer, and just about every disease there is for that matter We truly are what we eat. Genetics play a tiny role if any.

I agree genetics might give one the predisposition for PCa, but if those cells are not nutured and fed by the foods we consume, then there would be no cancer. PCa cells need certain foods to survive, or we can choose to put into our bodies food that will help our immune system destroy those cells. Hence, no animal protein and plenty of fruits, veggies, and sauce for this guy.

I'll continue on my road. Good luck on yours.

Great Post BuiDoi- Great to see some positive input !

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"Closing Down"- Shutting shop - Going out of business - Moving on and selling up Nursery (garden) supplies..
We call them "Plant Nurseries"


David - surely you must recognise that the greater number here are either starting their fight and bloody scared, or continuing their battle..

For a newbie to happen across the site, must leave a small foreboding that "This might be my lot"

I don't say it as a put down, or a criticism, but as a possible fact that those with the greatest to offer, have the most experience, and that is something to be respected, but not accepted as the ''Normal" progression of PCa.

Most of the acquaintances I have with PCa, consider that whilst they must be watchful, they are "Cured", in so far as the only known cancer is G O N E... from their bodies following RP. There might be an occasional dribble and likely no more.... ,, Ummm -- Dancing, but who cares !

Otherwise we would accept Prof' Chapman's' contention that it is pointless even measuring PSA, or wasting money on Bx and Dx and RP's. and that we should just accept that we (who are touched by PCa) are all GOING TO DIE of PCa after a valiant fight, and frankly , that's total crap.

I have had the observation made to me "Why do you keep reading that Forum"
and they are right, I AM CURED, and I will take that feeling to the grave.

And whilst we previously spoke of GENETICS and DIET, lets really stress another thing -- ATTITUDE -- Even more important that the other two !

If we hang around here believing that all this is in store for ME, then there is a good possibility of that happening.

Cure requires attitude, because attitude affects stress and that affects one's immunity, and it is the Immune-System that will ultimately prove ME right.

If however we hang around here because we know what our feelings were when the ""C"" word was used, and that we know that WE ARE CURED and we might be able to assure others that it is the case, then that has to be good for ATTITUDE and our immune systems.

Our thoughts and prayers go with those on the Long March, but that is NOT the only course for PCa..

We ARE but Dust-Of-Life , but we are NOT here to be swept aside !
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Great points, Billy Mac..

I have heard about the benefits of Fermented Milk and even the Milk knockers, speak well of it.. As for MILK - I love it !

The Anti-Milk folk seem to talk like it's bad for 60-70% of people, and then it is going to be in degrees for all of them. "They say" it's the lactose, and as the gut is so vital for our immune system, if you upset the gut , then you upset the immune system, and that is what buggar's us up..

Sh.t DOES happen - and that is life !
Neither money nor education, nor attitude or will, diet or parents, .... .. . nothing will make anything certain..

Just enjoy what we have today ! Enjoy what has been given to us !
Life is beautiful !
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Billy Mac = thanks for your comments in particular, you too, Alf.

BuiDoi - looks like we share a major philosphy difference as much as anything else, and will simply agree to disagree. Some of what you wrote I would interpert as "blowing smoke up someone's a**" or just whimsical thinking. You are right, lots of new men/women come here with a fresh PC dx and are scared to death. They walk in here to get hope, courage, a sense of direction, and I can only speak for the past 2 years or so I have been here, the folks do a pretty good job of taking them in, answering their questions, and helping them along the way.

They shouldn't be sheltered from the negative side of PC or its effects, as it is a reality for many people. We don't like doctors that use general phrases like "you are cured" or "I guarranty this or that". That is misleading and not helpful to the patient in any way, and when things go wrong, and boy, do they go wrong at times, it leaves the patient in a worse mental state then before.

The best combo is reality mixed with a good dose of emphathy and sympathy when calleld for. The best support is to be there for any of our brothers and sisters here, to respect their treatment choices, to not to try to get them to doubt their medical team, and to be there to help them through all the tough spots along the way.

Attitude plays a role in all medical ailments to an extent, but all the wishing in the world and Polly Anna thinking isn't go to make anyone's cancer slow down or disapear. The attitude you need, is the attitude that there is always hope, and when you see a brother in a bad way with their cancer - still fighting hard, and not giving up, that is the kind of encouragement that will transfer and help others.

My best advice on the diet thing is the simplicity of what I have been taught: A heart healthy diet, i.e. Mederteranian type or similar, and all other things in moderation. If you drink a lot, drink a lot less, if you smoke, well if you smoke, quit smoking, will do wonders for the rest of your health.

David in SC

Gentlemen,

I'm the caregiver for a 79 yr old newbie (stage 4 Prostate Gleason (4+5)9 as well as stage 4 Hodgkin's) and have read this post with great interest....keep going .

~ Joyce

David,
On Friday night on a TV programme on the BBC there was a detailed explanation about blowing smoke up someone's a*s! The people on the panel could hardly believe it.
I found this explanation about it myself.

The Tobacco Smoke Enema (1750's-1810's) was used to infuse tobacco smoke into a patient's rectum for various medical purposes, primarily to resuscitation of drowning victims. A rectal tube inserted into the anus was connected to a fumigator and bellows that forced the smoke into the rectum. The warmth of the smoke was thought to promote respiration, but doubts about the credibility of tobacco enemas led to the popular phrase "blow smoke up one's ass."
Search on "tobacco smoke enema" for illustrations of the apparatus.

It was a funny programme and they also had a laugh about when it was that they switched from Analogue Rectal Examinations to Digital Rectal Examinations, as bizarrely, a DRE is the only proven cure for Hiccups/Hiccoughs. So who knows, maybe the Rectum does have something to do with how we breathe. (I know that after my surgery my sinuses were unblocked for the first time in 40 years!)

Alf

Goldhorse,

When you read this article you need to believe we have a very strong chance of no recurrence.

http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2010/01/06/an-update-on-gleason-grading-system-today/

Epstein uses the word "curable."  Their stats are 99.6% of patients with OC G6 up to 15 years later did not even experience BCR.  Some, not all of the patients had followup 22 years out.  That is a huge number.  For the ones that did nobody died of PCa or even developed detecable systemtic desease.  No metastisis was found.  Some of the 4 out of 1000 had a rise to a very low PSA and it remained stable after that.  I know of a guy on Yana.net that was G6 and his PSA went to .2 and stopped.  This is 10 years later.  There is no 20 or 30 year data yet which is what you and I need  to see.  But that does not exist yet.  I find it hard to believe that Epstien, probably the most highly respected pathologist, would make such a bold statement using the word "curable" unless he was absolutly sure.

What a VERY strange thread on this Thanksgiving weekend:

I'll limit my comments to two and pass by some otherwise tempting low-hanging fruit (e.g., "genetics and dna are major factors, as well as heriditary [sic] considerations"):

1. The people who participate on this board are not even close to being a scientific cross-sample of all men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer. Most men are treated and then move on, eventually dying of something else. True, many have permanent side-effects from their treatment, and it is debatable whether many of those men actually needed to be treated in the first place, but that is a different issue and I don't want to go there this morning.

2. ChrisR raises a very, very good point that many here either don't see or won't see because it produces too much cognitive dissonance - the PSA grading system has changed in the last several years and therefore many of us have Gleason scores that would have been significantly lower a few years ago. [For example, I have been told that my 4 + 3 Gleason score in 2008 would probably have been a 3 + 4 or 3 + 3 score a few years earlier.] In the context of long-term recurrence/survival studies, this causes a serious apples-to-oranges problem (on top of everything else).

Be happy! It's Thanksgiving!

Zen9