What is "Support" at HW?

Tudpock said:

"I have not seen where any of the moderators stand on my 3 categories and whether they think any or all of them are appropriate for this forum. If any of you have time, I would seriously appreciate knowing your opinion"

Jim, I honestly have to say that Sonny expressed my thoughts on almost all of it as well as I could. I would add that I don't think any of your 3 items are any more important or less so than another. My point has always been there's room and a need for all of them, but none of them should be used without the overall concept of care, support, -heck, -even love for each other that we can give. Just because we're a whiz-bang researcher or the most experienced at some aspect of it doesn't mean that we can't present our help in a way that encourages, supports and provides for both the emotional and knowledge need of people. We don't have to be so heartless and clinical that we forget that we are usually meeting with humans at their most vulnerable. No matter how good we are, we must remember to approach each person here with care, respect and help. There's no weakness in showing respect and polite manners or acceptance to everyone who comes here. My whole point is we are being rude to people, we may not realize it, but we are, even when they are asking for help and confused as to what they are facing. The initial greeting and acceptance by us of them is vitally important in getting them to open up and trust us. We have people who come here after due dilligence, have researched and decided that they are gonna have some treatment and we have people who tell them to stop, cancel their procedures, tell them that they haven't done enough study, etc. creating doubt in their minds and , so I've been told later, they have canceled , then later was told by their 2nd and 3rd opinion people they were right to begin with. Now they are afraid or untrusting of asking for more info, in dealing with other aspects of their treatment or recovery. I think it takes a lot of arrogance on our parts to be so strongly forcefully telling people what they should be doing, not suggesting, or recommending, but telling them to do this or that, and even inone case calling them a fool for not doing so. That's absolutely absurd that we can think we can do such things to people.

Now, I also know that we have new members coming here who may appear at first post as having some of the same negative characteristics as the worse of us, or even worse, are here for manipulation or mind games for sport, but we need to remember that the first or second or even more posts may be from people who may not understand just what they are posting to, some think they are on a blog, or a chat room, etc. and may not fall into our pattern of posting styles. They do adjust and learn.

My main theme here is that we can be the expert, the most experienced, the most emotionally supportive and still be polite, respectful and helpful. It's all in our presentation. As our mothers have taught us, it is always important to make a good first impression and good manners and respect always go a long way in accomplishing that. If we lay that goal on top of our other skills or experiences we have to offer, then we won't have this problem. Scientific data, having a bad day, stacks of research links assembled, all provided without heart is a cold failure when people are asking us for help or comfort.

Post Edited (James C.) : 2/26/2011 4:39:18 PM (GMT-7)

Sonny, thank you for your post, you gave a voice to those of us that could never express ourselves with such clarity and reason.

Our best to you and the rest of the gang,
Jake

ziggy, there's ways of saying things and there's ways of saying things. I didn't and don't say to not advise people, its the manner in which some here want to insist that their advice be taken, and the forceful manner, even rude way they do it. There's plenty of ways to say all the things you mention without being rude or making the poster feel they are dumb, or that the giver is superior to them. It's all in the delivery, not in the message. Some men will make quick decisions, and yes, it may be a mistake, but once they are told what the more normal approach is, if they choose to ignore what we all know is sound advice, then there's not much use in continuing to pile on the persuasion. We know the inside details of it, they don't but can't you see how we can come across as arrogant and rude in insisting that we are the only one who has valid advice? Again, I am not saying to not tell them the truth, but rather to be more aware of the effect our words can have on people, how we can inject self-doubt and even more worry to them. There's no need or place for rotating beating over the head of info, if they won't take it the first time. All the reasons you mention in your post don't excuse any of us being rude or insistant or belittling of their posts. I realize that many here are reading this scornfully, laughing at my touchy-feely way of expressing myself, but you and Tud did ask... I have a heart and , sometimes, no brains, others have brains, but don't ever show much heart. Also, I think you misread , I don't think I said: ''advising the common sense of taking ones time in a possible life changing decision now is verboten here. " Nope, don't think I said that.

Post Edited (James C.) : 2/26/2011 5:19:07 PM (GMT-7)

Sonny, You are so Elequent in your responce. I dont think there is any other reasons that what you have stated in your post. I just hope by my posting I am able to help the new guys in there journey throught the land of PCa.

Thanks Sonny for being my friend. You Rock buddy.

Cajun Jeff

I arrived late to this party and would but would still like to add my take on "support".

The first time I came to this site it was the middle of the night. I was in pain, depressed, and thinking my world was crumbling. A couple of guys jumped in so fast and cracked jokes about the terrible situation. Jokes?! ***?!? But they helped me see the bright side and, yes, the humor in the situation. They turned my outlook around in a matter of hours. The next morning as I was telling my wife how these total strangers helped me in the middle of the night, I started crying. They were tears of gratitude -(of course it might have been the drugs) . I can tell you now , you guys saved my sanity - and maybe my life!

Regular readers might have noticed that I tend to return the favor and try to pay it forward. If a few guys' days are brighter because of a funny post then that is "support". One humorous post had over 8000 hits. Apparently at least a couple of you felt better while reading it and found it helpful in some way.

Look, the internet is wonderful place. Everything is there. If we really wanted to find dry, technical data we can do a Google scholar search. Sometimes that is exactly what people need. Other times we need a shoulder to cry on. And sometimes we need a poke in the funny bone. That's "Support".

I have also met and become friends with some truly great people through this site and have discovered that support and friendship is GFMPH.

Sonny - Your reply said it so well. You're on my list, pal.

Jeff

Want a female point of view? Most of the usual issues have been addressed well on this thread, but I wanted to say something about the poster yesterday who was treated rudely for an innocuous comment. I honestly think it was out of character for this forum, but still...

If you guys engage in much rough, 'smart-a**ey' put down type stuff that I know men do to each other (and it often doesn't seem to bother many of them), you will drive the women away. They won't want to talk here. My first thought went to the feelings of that poster, and the prostate discussion was lost on me. It was uncomfortable..

So, just a gentle suggestion to try give the other men the benefit of the doubt. I doubt any of you would have said those things to a female poster.

Carry on (nicely)!

Juliet

I've gotten a couple really nasty personal emails lately. 

I got called a callous prick because I said in a recent couple posts that I was actually doing really good.

Yeah, I'm doing good. I did not have a cake walk getting here.

For the record...I AM doing good.

It does happen.

 

Mikey

Really? Someone complained that you of all people were doing well?
Was his name Schadenfreude?
As David said you are the anti-p.! Imagine how awful his life must be.

I figure when someone says bad things it's the hormones talking, and I cut them some slack. There's never a need to get down to that level. (even if they are being jerk-wads. :-P )

Jeff

A lot of good posts on this subject, i.e. Sonny, Bronson, Juliet, so not much that I can add. I read, look and listen but the final choice is mine. Words have power and how we say things to each other can lead to bridges or to walls. For me I am not an expert on PCa so it is best for me to leave technical advise to others and stick with "warm fuzzy support." But having said all of that, when you have so many different personalities on board there will be friction, but all in all we do remarkably well.

Michael

Tud, I think you’ve put some thought into identifying the primary three types of support-giving replies here at HW.   I also think that you’ve properly characterized me as usually posting in the second of those categories, which you called it the “Academic Support”, or perhaps “Scholarly Support.”   I do often very deliberately include reference links because it adds legitimacy to the points of emphasis in my posts…in those instances; I seek to squash the potential for anyone to accuse me of “playing doctor” by showing that it's not just me making this point but also the words of a respected physician/study.   I also know that some (not all) posters are interested in further self-study in order to increase their knowledge on the topic, and they would be interested in digging into the link details.   When I provide a link, I (almost) always provide a value-added summary of the key facts which are most relevant to the thread dialogue…out of respect for others’ valuable time, I never just post a link without the value-add descript ion.  You will never see me post a link with just the simple descript ion:  "Hey, here's a link with some info somehow related to PC that you oughta read." Usually, posting a scholarly reply/link is in direct reply to the origininator of the thread, or sometimes to a question raised during the course of the subsequent discussion.   There are other times, however, when I specifically post a scholarly link to counteract the sometimes goofy inputs I read here which have absolutely no scientific basis…I figure that in these situations I can either i) say “that last post was goofy”, or ii) summarize a legit study & provide the link, and let the intelligent reader see the goofiness for themselves.   I usually choose to go the route of ii)…although I am often temped to just say “that last post was goofy.”   (Perhaps sometimes I do both.)   Tud, your post addressed the most typical types of HW responses , but the other side of the coin is the different types of questions posed at HW.   Many are seeking knowledge, some are seeking advice, and others don’t even include a question…they are simply looking for a reply from someone saying “I know what you are going through.”   I think that there is a healthy mix of these questions.   Of course, there are also other very interesting psychological needs which are intertwined in some of the other posts…

Casey, actually I think your descriptor of "Scholarly Support" is better.  And I appreciate that you didn't mind me casting you as one who frequently posts in that manner...most of us cross the lines between the three and you certainly do as well.

I know that some here don't appreciate your scholarly posts but I do.  One of the reasons I remain on this site is educational...trying to expand my knowledge on the disease.  The fact that you have the time and ability to find the "facts" is indeed value-added in my book.

I think several people said it well but James was very specific in saying that there is room under Peter's tent for various type of support and I think that is part of what keeps this a vibrant and growing site.

davidg, I understand why you might consider this topic "curious" but please re-read the response that you received from James and I think you will better understand the reactions to the specific doctor.

Tudpock (Jim)

Ok, guys, from past experience, I see where this discussion is heading, so let's move back to the original posters subject and get away from personalizations of any and all members. That's just gasoline on the fire, if the past teaches us anything. Davidg, you have some interesting points, but your posting style leans to using provocative language that won't sit well with some people here. How about easing up on it some, ok?

Tudpock18 said...
I know that some here don't appreciate your scholarly posts but I do.

Jim, first of all, thanks for this comment.  The way that I look at it is that "some" simply have got their heads so far into the sand that they cannot see the value and benefit of new information...and some never will.  As the saying goes, "change is difficult."

edit:  point well taken, Michael, thanks

Post Edited (Casey59) : 2/28/2011 1:38:10 PM (GMT-7)