HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Gat Goren Method

Support Forums
>
Prostate Cancer
✚ New Topic locked
1 2 3 4 5 67 8 9 10
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 12/3/2012 9:16 PM (GMT 0)
Hi andyaction it is great to hear from you and all the problems you have with the NHS when it comes to private treatment, it seems as though I may have bigger problems than you.

Firstly my urologist as said that there is nothing they can do to help, and that all test will have to be done privately; and that they cannot give a patients information out to private doctors...so that was a shot up the ass for me. I went to my G.P and I just got the same attitude. I then went off to the private hospital here and they looked everything that Dr Gat wanted, and with the scans blood test it would amount something like £1.500 or more. At the moment I am trying to press my Urologist, but I don't hold out much hope for myself on this one.

Did you know that Francisco Carnevale of Brazil is suppose to be the Pioneer prostatic artery embolization, and his college João Martins Pisco in Portugal. Just type into Google to reach there websites.

By the way I am up here in Yorkshire, maybe all the doctors are to tight up here...hahahha

Any other news andyaction or anyone else please give as much info as you all can.

Thanks...
Posted 12/3/2012 9:18 PM (GMT 0)
Hi
Do you happen to have the list Gat and Goren wanted you to supply to them?

Thanks
JD
Posted 12/4/2012 8:57 AM (GMT 0)
Hi JD yes I do have a list of requirements that items Gat and Goren supplied to me, strangely the sexual health doctor as supplied a report on HIV ect which or all negative.

Thanks

SS
Posted 12/4/2012 12:38 PM (GMT 0)
Hi SS
Could you provide that list?

Thanks
JD
Posted 12/4/2012 8:08 PM (GMT 0)
Hi JD

Here is the list that G/G as ask me to provide them...

Following your conversation with Dr Gat‏



Dear Stewart

Following your conversation with Dr Gat, here are the following tests he would like you to undergo:

1. Abdominal Ultra-Sound for evaluation of the kidneys, urinary bladder and prostate gland, including prostate volume calculation

2. Ultra-Sound Color Flow Doppler for detection bilateral Varicocele (if possible)

3. CBC - Complete Blood Count

4. Hormonal Profile: LH, FSH, Testosterone, Free Testosterone, PSA, Serology for HIV, Serology for Hepatitis B, Serology for Hepatitis C

5. Clotting studies: PT, PTT, Platelets

6. Serum creatinine and BUN (Renal Function)

7. Serum bilirubin, alkaline phosphate, LDH, GPT (Liver Function)

Please send us the results via email. That will help Dr Gat to determine if the treatment is suitable for you


Best wishes

Gat Goren Clinic
Posted 12/4/2012 9:04 PM (GMT 0)
Stewart
Many thanks.
JD
Posted 12/5/2012 10:32 AM (GMT 0)
By the way was this the say sort of things you were asked for?

Many thanks

Stew
Posted 12/5/2012 3:27 PM (GMT 0)
Stew
I'm going to speak with my URO and PA to get these items so I can have the knowledge and be able to provide them to Gat Goren.

Thanks again
JD
Posted 12/6/2012 10:54 AM (GMT 0)
ok...thanks JD
Posted 12/9/2012 3:06 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, Sorry to be so slow in responding.. busy at the moment..... Uk, this is how I went about my blood tests. Because I had known BPH and was on prescribed drugs and had been seen by a Urologist, my doctor regularly tells me I am due for blood tests and I usually went / go as it was good to keep an eye on what was happening and to maintain the supply of prescribed drugs. As I had prviate health Insurance, the Urologist undertook all the tests like flowrate, scans etc and then advised a TURP which would have bee npaid for privately. Blood tests till that time had been as the doctor / urologist had asked for. After being advised to have the TURP within day's I found G/G and within a few weeks I had made the decision to go G/G.. When G/G requested blood tests and the other tests, I provided them with urologist's recent test results and went to the Doctors to ask for further blood tests to meet the G/G criteria. The Doctor said those blood tests would need to be undertaken privately which I was prepared for - So, TELL your doctor you want private blood tests to assist with keeping an eye on your prostate. The doctors supplied me an NHS blood test form and ticked what I was asking for. I then went to the Hospital, paid £80 or so and they did the tests. They did overlook the HIV and Hep tests but I moaned and went mad and the tests were eventually carried out. The blood tests finally arrived and were then sent by me to G/G on one day before I was due to fly out!

As you don't appear to have private cover, then you may have to pay privately. Ask G/G what they would charge? They can do them -although if you have any issues that preclude you from the procedure, then you've wasted your money !

If you can scrape the £1500 or so for private tests, then depending on your condition, you have to decide whether or not it's worth it. For me, it would have been worth it.

Mind you in yorkshire, aren't they renowned for not giving anything away!!!!!
Posted 12/16/2012 8:51 AM (GMT 0)
Hello people greet all forum members here have been a few days

I come from Germay and have read with great Iteresse of their information about G / G
have the same problem as many of us men
I think to be well informed thanks to Andy and Yoav Thank you Thank you
it was a great help to me to travel for my decision to Israel
have an appointment in mid-January at G / G everything planned and booked
have good contact with the clinic, you are very helpful for information
and permit pre
dan will write about my experience here
wish you all happy days greeting Siggi tongue
Posted 12/17/2012 4:10 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Hansi
Was it difficult to get accepted for the G/G procedure?

Thanks
JD
Posted 12/18/2012 10:08 PM (GMT 0)
HANSI,

GOOD LUCK! keep us posted.

To everyone, a merry and peaceful christmas and a happy new year.
Posted 12/18/2012 10:14 PM (GMT 0)
uk, just a thought, under the freedom of information act can't you request your records and all the test info and results from your doctors for your own use. Ask a solictiro to send them a letter if you have resistance.
Posted 12/25/2012 5:09 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Andy. I just read your comment from 12/3/2012 7:02 AM (GMT -7). Seems to be working.

I have considered the return comments from some of the others especially relating to why Urologists are not excited about the procedure. They seem sound arguments.

But it doesn't explain why other radiologists who do specialise in veins, have not woken up to this potential goldmine of easily applicable expertise. Perhaps not easily applicable BUT why have other experienced doctors in this field not expressed increased interest in the method.

And it still doesn't explain why health funds and insurances don't investigate the procedure which, for them, would be a great saving if not a great marketing tool for selling their insurances. The absence of any 'down-time' in an expensive hospital bed must be appealing and if the procedure became more routine, costs would tumble. I doubt whether the insurers would intrinsically care about the absence of any uncomfortableness which is all but eliminated with the GG method since the 'sensitive parts' go 'untouched'.

But. Even after all these reasons for reticence, I have not dismissed my eventual 'submission' to the procedure with your own experiences a great influence on my ... opinions.
Posted 12/26/2012 10:28 AM (GMT 0)
Hi people Hi Andy hi cd

thanks for the good wishes you inform expectant when I know more

'm beginning 2013 Previous blood tests, it looks fine! Planning is still good

Love to G / G hope you can help me!

the currencies of the dream

Gruss Hansi tongue
Posted 12/28/2012 8:37 PM (GMT 0)
Hi JD/Andyaction and other here...

I have just returned from Portugal and had my BHP treatment with Professor Pisco, I had my treatment done on the 20 December. I have been sore for a week, but now I can start to feel the results peeing two times in the night compered to 4/6 times a night and improving. Still taking medication but with time I know I can ween myself off them, and in any case I am only taking one a day.

Professor and his team were really professional, I had all my tests done there. I have not reckoned everything up as yet but I bet it comes to less then £5.000 to include everything and plane fare too.

If anyone wants to go down Portugal I am willing to give all the information required..

http://martinspisco.hslouis.pt/en/prostate/introduction-2/

SS
Posted 12/30/2012 8:56 PM (GMT 0)
UK: Glad to learn your visit to Portugal was successful. I was wondering what kind of pain you experienced and how this procedure may be different from the Gat Goren technique in Israel. During my Gat Goren procedure there was no pain and no complications. (except for the pain of laying out big dollars). However it took 4 months before I went from 2 bathroom visits to one at night. I am still looking for improvement in testosterone levels .Here is interesting new information from Brazil on prostatic embolization on patients with severe urinary retention who have needed a catheter due to BPH.

http://www.rsna.org/NewsDetail.aspx?id=5975
Posted 1/1/2013 10:24 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Martin

Thanks for your message, the pain I experienced was on the operating table I think it was when the professor was inserting the wire and catheter into the arteries. It did not hurt all the time maybe when they were going round bends or into tight areas from the groin, the professor told me when he was actually into the prostate arteries I did not feel any pain there I don't think. What I did have is a lot of is black/blue type of bruising from the groin and all around my testis and nearly all of my penis, that is now starting to fade. I am starting to go to the toilet again more through the night, but I suppose this will be up and down for a while yet.

You mentioned Testosterone do you mean free testosterone as in sex testosterone? This was never mention to me....!

The Brazilian Doctor had his training in Portugal with the Professor and so did the doctor from the Southampton hospital Dr Hackings. I ask Professor Pisco about G/G and he did not seem to know much about them.

My procedure was carried out as in this NHS data
http://www.uhs.nhs.uk/OurServices/Radiology-scansandimaging/PatientInformation/Prostatearteryembolisation.aspx

Happy New Year

Hope to hear from you again soon..

Stew

Stew
Posted 1/1/2013 10:25 AM (GMT 0)
Happy New Year all...
Posted 1/3/2013 1:37 AM (GMT 0)
Looking forward to their full report in March. 47 patients are not enough of a sample to make a conclusion on, I'd say 130+ patients over a 3 year period would be statistically significant as to results. Good news for the UK or those willing to travel there. I think if the method gains acceptance with the NHS that wil be the turning point for world wide acceptance.

martin victor said...
NHS Survey...

Perhaps they will endorse Gat Goren method.


http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/index.jsp?action=article&o=61500

Posted 1/3/2013 2:09 AM (GMT 0)
The article indicates a Washington DC doctor has applied for FDA permission to start trials for the procedure. Wonder how this will shake out? Nearly a decade of trials have been ongoing for NYMOX 1207, a protein that reports similar reduction of prostate tissue. The articles in the US and UK and Portugal point to the reduction of BPH by necrosis of the tissue due to cutting off the blood supply. They don't mention the free testosterone reduction. Nymox 1207 also creates necrosis by means of a protein that eats the prostate tissue. Similar trials with injection of botox in the prostate to cause necrosis of the prostate tissue showed very positive results in Italy about 5 years ago. For some reason the FDA trials never advanced in the US to the point of bringing a product to market. The last "big breakthrough" for surgical treatment of bph was the laser vaporization method.


martin victor said...
UK: Glad to learn your visit to Portugal was successful. I was wondering what kind of pain you experienced and how this procedure may be different from the Gat Goren technique in Israel. During my Gat Goren procedure there was no pain and no complications. (except for the pain of laying out big dollars). However it took 4 months before I went from 2 bathroom visits to one at night. I am still looking for improvement in testosterone levels .Here is interesting new information from Brazil on prostatic embolization on patients with severe urinary retention who have needed a catheter due to BPH.

http://www.rsna.org/NewsDetail.aspx?id=5975

Posted 1/3/2013 2:33 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks to all the forum members who are sticking with this topic, providing information, questions and opinions. For what it's worth here are some of mine after following the posts for several months now.

I had the 180 watt GL laser surgery in June, fully expecting it to be a temporary solution with an expiration date. After 6 months I can say it was somewhat successful but the gains seem to be decreasing recently. Presently I seem to have a good flow for about 10 seconds, followed by a weak flow for 30 or so seconds, and another 30 seconds of dribbling. Still getting up about 2-3 times at night (down from 5-6). Haven't needed flomax (actually the generic, tamsulosin) since the procedure.
What I haven't determined yet is my PVR (post void residual). To me this is the most important factor as it can harm the bladder and kidneys. If my PVR is good (less than 50 ml), then the rest can be lived with until the PVR gets worse. At some point before my scheduled urology visit in February I will catherize myself after drinking a liter of water, waiting for an hour or so, then voiding to measure the PVR for myself. Prior to the GL surgery I measured it at 200 ml. Currently I think I have a bit of a UTI as I am experiencing some burning while urinating. If it continues I'll have to sort it out. The symptoms and possible causes, complications, of the prostate are pretty mind boggling. My PSA prior to the GL was 6.9, will be interesting to see how the retest numbers are.

My overall conclusions on the GL is that it was a relatively benign procedure that solved my acute retention problem (I was in retention nightly even with the flomax) for the time being. That's about all I know for sure to date. My feeling about the GG is that I feel uneasy about the possibility of bladder necrosis or even artery necrosis that is listed as a possible (one report said an anecdotal) side effect.
Posted 1/3/2013 3:07 AM (GMT 0)
>>>"My feeling about the GG is that I feel uneasy about the possibility of bladder necrosis or even artery necrosis that is listed as a possible (one report said an anecdotal) side effect."<<<

Bob: Please advise the source (one report said an anecdotal) for this possible side effect. Thanks.
Posted 1/3/2013 3:35 AM (GMT 0)
>>> The articles in the US and UK and Portugal point to the reduction of BPH by necrosis of the tissue due to cutting off the blood supply<<<

Bob: The blood supply to the testes and the prostate are not cut off with the GG procedure. The testicular artery provides blood to the testis and then to the prostate through the deferential vein. Yes, the internal spermatics are sclerosed (glued) ...but they are a drainage system for waste products from the testes and for free T to pass into the general system. Three other veins are also capable of this function when the internal spermatics no longer function. I cannot imagine where there would be bladder necrosis or artery necrosis.
✚ New Topic locked
12345678910