Some good supplement warnings from Yahoo news tonight

Worth reading and thinking about on supplement warnings
http://health.yahoo.net/articles/healthcare/10-surprising-dangers-vitamins-and-supplements

One just needs to be very selective on what type of supplements they are going to take and do some research.

Jerry. Agreed, that would be the smart way to do it. In my Oncology Rehab program, they don't advise any of us cancer patients to take supplement, unless they are under the direct advisement of the patient's doctor. I think that is good advice also.

david

Supplements can effect many things in the body, other than what is the intended purpose, and there can be dangerous interactions between supplements and prescription meds. This too is part of the reasoning to do so only under doctors advisement. The Oncology Rehab staff tell me, that they have seen too many people get over zealous about doses, and end up with dangerous amounts in their systems. I don't like taking risky steps with my health issues, so for now, I intend to only do as my doctors direct. They are the experts, not me.

david

Sheldon, good story there. Moderation is often the key to many things in life, always seems like when people get into the extremes at either end of the spectrum, they get themselves into trouble. While most people don't exercise enough, its possible to exercise too much, or even drink too much water, which can be dangerous to the body.

david

The message is that common sense should prevail. Self-medicated mega-dosing is extreme, as is a supplement-phobia.

Vitamin D is strongly recommended to combat PC and several other diseases, but excessive amounts can be as dangerous (or moreso) than a deficiency. 1000-2000 IU per day is generally recommended as absolutely safe and beneficial. Common sense.

Pomegranate juice, or the extract in pill form, has been shown repeatedly to slow PC progression, and has little to no side effects. It doesn't eliminate PC, and it benefits some men's disease more than others (not everyone responds to any medication in exactly the same way)... it does good and does no harm. Essentially all of the PC expert clinicians are recommending it for patients with progressing PC, but not in mega-doses...just the recommended dose. Common sense

Besides these, there are a number of other supplements which are also recommended repeatedly by clinicians. None of them recommend excessiveness; all of them recommend common sense. Another of their recommendations is against multi-vitamins (just take the Vitamin D separately). Common sense.

Mel (compiler, one of the HW posters) went to see Dr Scholz last year and then published his list of Scholz's recommendations in THIS thread. It is the same list that was published in the book, "Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers" book. The book stresses, as I have many times before that (i) this is not a cure for cancer, but it can help stack the odds in your favor for the most favorable outcome, and (ii) tell your physician about any and all supplements you take...common sense.

As the saying goes -- If you only want a conventional outcome, stick with only conventional treatments.

Whatever you do, use common sense. Promoting the notion of a supplement-phobia under-serves men who seek an edge, or better "odds," when fighting PC, and goes against what the acknowledged PC experts recommend for the patients under their care.

From everything I've read and learned, Mel's list is not extreme.  I don't know of significant side effects with any of them, done again within limits.

Just one spelling issue --- curcumin (only picking, Mel)

 

Do they have scientific studies to back up the recommendations?
In 30 seconds of googling, I can find studies that show lycopene supplements having no effect.

As a support group leader I never recommend supplementation at all. I do point out various studies that are done on them and alway mention that the best plan if you are looking into supplementation that you contact your doctor and run it by them first. Never self prescribe. You can have blood tests done to see if you run low anywhere and then your doctor can make educated recommendations.

I do not like PCRI's recommendation. It's like a one size fits all approach and that's not logical.

Tony

Gibson, since this was my thread, thought I would reply to you. I thought your views were very reasonable and moderate. I saw nothing wrong with your position.

There is no hard, scientific proof with any of these alledged lists of supplement, that some alledged PC experts put together. Supplements are a money making racket, and too many patients take it on their own, and may end up doing more harm than good in the long run.

Don't let Casey's reply to you intimidate you, even when he uses giant letters and bold print, it doesn't make his opinion any more valid than yours.

What you have said is more in line with the oncology dieiticans I have been seeing for 1 1/2 years now, and also matches the opinion of my onologist (who only deals with advanced PC and BC). so I find your opinion in line with real doctors dealing with real patients.

I would never say its wrong to take supplements, but I don't find that it is "stacking" any thing in particular in your favor by taking supplements. If a person wants to do it, then fine, but as my GP said one time, all men are really doing is producing very expensive urine in the end.

I liked your opinion, thought it was well rounded. The diet tips you gave made sense, and that would more likely help a cancer patient in general, and would be good eating advice for the general public.

david

Gibson:

Your two points are NOT mutually exclusive. I totally agree that a good diet absolutely trumps the supplements. (Incidentally, you didn't mention exercise, another crucial factor).

We know FOR SURE that a low fat, heart healthy diet is good for general overall health and to help retard PC. Ditto for exercise.

I have to admit that my diet is pretty good, but it could be better. I still like/enjoy the occassional steak and pizza and even cake/ice cream. I should eat more fresh fruits and vegetables. I also need to get more exercise. I've had some physical issues that have interfered with my gym activities. But, hopefully I will soon be back to my vigorous workout routine.

David, it is really difficult to respond to you because you take offense so easily. But, let me try. Saying that Casey's use of caps and bold print doesn't add credence to his points is correct. But it doesn't diminish his points either.

Constantly saying that your dieticians do not advocate supplements does not make your point true either. Little by little there does seem to be a gathering of evidence that points to certain supplements as being beneficial. I will lean more towards the top experts such as Strum, Myers, Scholz, Lam, etc. that are recommending

these supplements.

Just as diet trumps supplements (except that as I said they are not mutually exclusive), I have to say that the advice of the experts for me trumps your dieticians.

By the way, Gibson, I don't think the supplements in the dosages recommended will hurt -- they have not been shown to hurt.

Having said all that, let me add that I still have a degree of skepticism about the supplement issue. Companies have sold people a bill of goods on worthless supplements, especially in the light of eating a good diet. For example, if one eats well, then multivitamin supplements are a waste. Additionally, we do seem to have studies that praise a supplement and then a study comes out that shows it's worthless. A good example is beta sisterol for benign prostate problems. Incidentally, as an aside, one supplement that does seem to help me is a glucosamine/msm combination tablet (no chondroitin). It helps with a knee issue. In fact it has helped about 100%!

Anyway, the one attraction that allows these companies to make a fortune is that it is so easy to take a pill. Hey, why exercise to lose weight. Why eat sensibly? I can take this fat burning tablet and...oh, yeah, I got to go buy this bridge.

So, in conclusion, supplements and their marketeers have earned a bad name. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. As Casey points out, there is a growing mountain of evidence that gives a favorable nod to some supplements in the fight against PC. I'll take the pills, remain skeptical, and hope that the experts are right.

Mel

 

How about a sticky thread to save bandwidth?


Casey: Supplements are good. You should take them morning, noon and night.



David: Not so fast, big boy. Everything in moderation.



Others: Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, maybe.



Jim



P. S. Maybe this should go on the Friday humor thread...???

Personally I don't take pill supplements, but I know many do. My wife takes a handful every morning. I try to eat the foods that will give me those natural supplements. If I knew it would help in keeping the PC from rising up again, as I said before from a movie "I would pea on a spark plug if I thought it would do any good".

During a rise is my psa from >0.04 to 0.07, my urologist at Emory sent me to the Emory Radiation Oncologist "both real drs." During our discussion, he told me to drink 2 glasses of soy milk (already doing that) and eat 2 tablespoons for tomato paste (for lycopene). that was 2 years ago, it has since gone down to 0.03. Could it be because of the pom juice, soy shake, soy milk or v8, maybe maybe not.

Just like getting PC, these supplements and that which I am taking affects each person differently. I have been drinking pom and soy milk for since surgery in 2006, and will continue. With a large nodule, and psa velocity of 1 per year for 3 years, if you go by the statistics, I should have been BCR long before now.

On a side note, I belong to a couple sports forums, college and high school. This forum is beginning to resemble those 2 recently. What began as good natured venting ang ribbing between fans of college and high school rivalries before games, has turned into name calling and personal attacks, which is the reason I read those now, but don't post any longer. 6 years ago when I joined HW, I don't remember all the kind of posts that I see today with people taking offense, or accusing people of hijacking threads, calling people out because they get inspiration from Spiritual songs. I have been a member for 6 years now, have less than 200 posts I believe. I don't feel the need to comment on each and every thread, as most of the time,there are members that know more than I do about certain journeys people are on. I can only relate to what I have gone through, but I would never try to suggest anyone take the same route I have as that is a BIG decision that needs to be made by each person, or suggest that someone take or not take certain aides they may think will help them stay cancer free. I may get lambasted and may never get another question answered or get any advice if I happen to need it again.

Hope everyone a great weekend, in a few weeks, it will be my favorite time of year, fall, football season, deer season, smell of gathered crops in the air. Hope everyone a great weekend.