Can "nerve bundles" grow back, and how long can it take, related to errections?

We have talked a lot among us surgery guys, about the nerve bundles that effect errections.  Some men have nerve sparing on one side or both.  Other men have non-nerve sparing ops, and lose one side or both sides.  All of this greatly determines, among other factors, the ability to have errections post-surgery.

We have read and talked about, that these nerve bundles are delicate – easy to traumatize, and slow to grow back and/or repair themselves, but it seems to be hard to find accurate and complete information on the subject.

And based on the many histories here at HW PC, our accounts are all over the board, literally.

Some of the questions are, can these nerve bundles grow back? Can they repair themselves? How long does this process take?  And I am sure you have other questions and comments on this subject.

I read several years ago, that they can grow back (in theory), but it was real slow, seems like it was less than 1/10^th of an inch per year, however, I can’t find that source.

Now I want to use me as a test case.  My open surgery was 51 months ago.  My surgeon did a very wide cut on the left side, entire bundle removed.  He attempted to do the same on the right side, but due to surgical difficulties, was unable to complete, and on the surgical notes, it was noted:  “let in place, but damaged”.

We know the rest of my story, but to make this thread make sense, I quickly repeat.  Never had any ED  (none prior to PC either) post surgery.  Was getting full errections while on my first 63 days of being on catheter.  So in 4 plus years, have never used any ED meds – pills, injections, pumps, toys, etc, and zero problem having full and useful errections anytime needed.  Yes, I am lucky, yes, even my surgeon says it was a miracle and made no medical sense.

However, not the end of the story.  about 6 months ago or so, started waking up at night with super woodies, I mean way bigger and stronger than normal. And no, wasn’t having erotic dreams (not so lucky,lol).  I am not circumcised, and these “new” errections were making me hurt at the tip, as the foreskin won’t open much after all these years.  It’s like there was more errections than space inside the skin (hope that makes sense).

Then this started happening during normal sex, larger and painful errections.  These don’t happen every single time, and I am glad when they are not.  My wife is a well experienced nurse, and several times during recent “romps”, she has remarked that my penis seemed unusually large, larger than “normal”, whatever normal means.  Again, many are probably thinking, what’s the problems?  Or, lucky guy!

My point is back to the topic.  Do these nerve bundles really grow back, and perhaps my left side is back, stronger than ever?  Perhaps the right side, doing all the work the past 4 years, strengthened to compensate, and now with both sides working, it’s doing too good a job?

Looking for some serious input here on the subject.  Been thinking about posting this for weeks, but hesitated, so let’s keep it a serious subject.  My case might give hope to others that are far out from surgery with existing ED problems.

David in SC

 

hoping for some serious input here, and learn more about how these nerve bundles can re-grow and heal on their own, if that is what goes on with men post surgery. I do remember my doctor saying that the nerves can be really traumatized, even if they are not surgically removed.

David,
I had both bundles removed and sadly have had no activity since then. I never had a problem before the surgery and truly believed ED was for other, older guys who are out of shape. Not me. I will be fine.
As you can see from my stats, I was pretty far along and had the full alphabet soup of EPE, PNI, etc. The surgeon said he had "to cut wide" to get it all and that included both bundles. Oh well.
It's been 3 1/2 years and there has been no reconnection for me.
I'm waiting for someone to develop a stem cell injection that will reconnect nerves.

The lame shall walk;
The Blind shall gawk;
and the impotent shall ___ !

Jeff

Hi Purgatory,

I'm glad that things have worked out so well, even though it was not expected. I'm guess that, since the surgeon had to leave one nerve bundle in place (although "damaged"), that damaged nerve apparently is still able to get enough "signal" through to get the job done.

Sounds like a miraculous turn of events in that the surgeon was unable to remove the nerve -- which, as a result, allows you to perform naturally. Sometimes things happen for the better even though they were not part of the original plan.

Glad to hear it!
Chuck

July 2011 local PSA lab reading 6.41 (from 4.1 in 2009). Mayo Clinic PSA Sept. 2011 was 5.7.
Local urologist DRE revealed significant BPH, but no lumps.
PCa Dx Aug. 2011 at age of 61.
Biopsy revealed adenocarcinoma in 3 of 20 cores (one 5%, two 20%). T2C.
Gleason score 3+3=6.
CT of abdomen, bone scan both negative.
DaVinci prostatectomy 11/1/11 at Mayo Clinic (Rochester, MN), nerve sparing, age 62.
My surgeon was Dr. Matthew Tollefson, who I highly recommend.
Final pathology shows tumor confined to prostate.
5 lymph nodes, seminal vesicles, extraprostatic soft tissue all negative.
1.0 x 0.6 x 0.6 cm mass involving right posterior inferior,
right posterior apex & left mid posterior prostate. Right
posterior apex margin involved by tumor over a 0.2 cm length, doctor says this is insignificant.
Prostate 98.3 grams, tumor 2 grams. Prostate size 5.0 x 4.7 x 4.5 cm.
Catheter out in 7 days. No incontinence, occasional minor dripping.
First post-op exam 2/13/12, PSA <0.1.
Semi-erections now happening 14 months post-op.

was hoping casey, johnt, ralf, tony, and a few of our technical pc guys would help out here, really looking for sound medical reasons or technical reasons on this nerve bundle stuff. we use the term nerve bundles so often, but usually without much explanation or detail. perhaps being the weekend, this thread hasn't been seen by all that many.

david

no foul there, chuck. it is what it is.

there are men that have pc that won't be treated, espec by surgery - because they dont want to risk their errections. a stiffie while laying in a casket isnt a good option either. i would rather have been facing ED and knowing all my cancer was gone, if I were making the choice. Since that didn't happen, I enjoy the good part of what I have, while the cancer is still there. Certainly wasn't my choice, just my outcome.

david

Sag - good report. See you also have no ED, even with partial nerve bundle removal.

On my left side, I can't say I have felt anything in particular. Having my errections feeling normal from the start, can't say they felt stronger on one side or the other. Obviously, my right side must be very strong on its own, even though it was considered "damaged".

I find the entire process very complex and intriguing, and thus is why we see so much variance in the men here, especially those battling ED even with nerve sparing. Makes you really wonder what makes the difference from person to person.

For now, I will enjoy the gift I was given. I was told that RT would ultimately mess up my good fortune, but I am over 3 years out from SRT, a lot of radiation (72gys) and as we all know, was administered very wrong. So far, the radiation has had zero effect sexually for me. The only thing I can remember, was perhaps for 6 months after it ended, my orgasms felt muted, instead of the normal strong feelings I experiened post surgery. But that resolved itself.

I know not all men would agree with this statement, because it is personal and subjecctive. But 4 years plus post surgery, I would not trade back for my old wet orgasms. No way. The new way eliminates the mess, opens up some creative opportunties, and the orgasms I experience easily last 3-5 times longer than pre-surgery, and all so much more intense. Afraid my poor heart can't take it sometimes, lol. My cowpen's gland was left in place and working, so there are times, that its very convincing that I am releasing a real load (not to be crude), still amazes me that there is nothing there when I am finished, but it sure simulates like it did pre surgery.

david

Purg, the surgeon told me that everything reacted the way it should, and where it should be.

Next time I will ask him to elaborate on his statement.  I believe four main variables are responsible for the various outcomes on ED.  Our bodies, cancer, treatment method, and Doctor.  Within these variables there is a multitude of other variables.   And yes, statistcally odds are in ones favor, but nothing is 100%.

I enjoy the dry orgasms also, and as time passes by enjoy them even more.  I don’t feel less of a man; I feel less of a mess.

I am a year and a half post surgery and things are starting to look up. I get an engorgement but not hard enough or long enough to penetrate her. I was luck in that I got the cath out at 4 weeks. I was able to have orgasams 2 weeks after that. What was great was that I quit peeing my self at 2 weeks also. BUT....When I Cum, I shoot pee like it was cum and NO woman likes that very much. I read all your posts and not one of you mentioned that. Is this normal??...Larry

OK... figured you guys probably didn't expect a woman to chime in on this... but....

Size and 'hardness' are more related to blood supply and flow (both into and out of the penis) rather than to nerves. Nerves get things going, then blood completes the process. That's one reason those with blood pressure problems sometimes have ED. And why 'the shots' work- they encourage blood flow. So, David, I'd talk to doc about this IF it continues painful. Your recent surgeries and treatments may have 'opened up' previously blocked/partially blocked vessels. Shouldn't be a problem if your penial tissues stretch and adapt to the new pressure. But if they don't, it could do permanent damage.

Hubby has also mentioned the 'tingles and twinges' recently and asked me if nerves could heal/ grow back. Problem is he is on major HDT and won't care to do anything about an erection if he's able to get one. But the therapy is keeping him in the zero club, so we aren't concerned about ED.

DH was non nerve spared. He also had about an inch of bladder removed. We didn't expect him to ever get a natural erection again. But late this summer, 9 months post op, there were some signs of life, and now occasionally with a whole Cialis he gets enough for penetration. Unfortunately it only lasts 30 seconds, and there are other issues, but we are beginning to hope that he will eventually improve enough to have satisfying intercourse.

So did his nerves grow back? or did his surgeon miss some? She told us she removed everything she could get as he had cancer in his nerves. So I don't know.

Only an observation from me... I've seen a LOT of sexually aroused naked dudes... Don't ask me how. Anyway, I've seen fit and healthy 20-30 year old guys barely able to get wood let alone stay hard and 60 year old men able to hang a coat on it. Point being that there is clearly, without any doubt wayyyy more to wood than 'just' the nerves. Even with the nerves there is no guarantee.

Also I think 'reporting' is sketchy and often frankly a lie. I say this because of the old adage "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". Wood for me means I can punch a hole in drywall but for some a major boner would barely mark the paint. It's subjective; alas that's why half these reported 'success rates' for ED after treatment are close to worthless. One surgeon at JH is reporting 80%!!! That just isn't so... As borne out by this and every other forum, it's a coin toss at best and what you come in with clearly has a bearing.

Overall, it frustrates the crap out of me that our illustrious scientists have unravelled which part of DNA makes your ass spotty and that there's water on Mars... But they are only about halfway there on the what and why of wood. A male tragedy; because we all take it for granted until it's gone.

I think this is an interesting and honest thread, bravo... Alas there is no definitive answer, only hypothesis.

Post Edited (Paul65) : 10/28/2015 12:32:22 PM (GMT-6)

Larry D,

Start a new thread to get introduced. This one is a few years old.

Welcome to Healing Well!