HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Partin table ?

Support Forums
>
Prostate Cancer
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 4/5/2013 3:39 PM (GMT 0)
The Partin table on my biopsy report indicates there is a 34% chance of the PCa being organ confined.   So with surgery there is a 66% chance SRT will be needed?
Posted 4/5/2013 4:22 PM (GMT 0)
Moe,
You missed one additional step. SRT is only effective if the 66% is still local. You will have to determine that it is local and not systemic and this can be done by sampling lymph nodes at surgery. It can also be done prior by the C11 clorine PET scan or the Fereme scan at Sandlake imaging.
Posted 4/5/2013 4:43 PM (GMT 0)
sounds right moe.  my doc said there was a 60% chance that my PC had escaped the capsule but also felt that the cancer if escaped was still local.  we skipped surgery and did HT, BT, IGRT.

ed

 

Posted 4/5/2013 5:54 PM (GMT 0)

 I guess what I am asking is if I have surgery there is a 66% chance it will not remove all of the cancer.

Posted 4/5/2013 5:58 PM (GMT 0)
According to the Partin tables that would be correct. Which is not the same as it can not be cured. Start reading books, be your own advocate. there is a reading list at the top of the forum threads.
Posted 4/5/2013 5:58 PM (GMT 0)
According to the Partin tables that would be correct. Which is not the same as it can not be cured. Start reading books, be your own advocate. there is a reading list at the top of the forum threads.
Posted 4/5/2013 6:02 PM (GMT 0)
on second thought, surgery it self could get rid of it even if it escapes the prostate. A wide margin cut could keep the cancer within the specimen if not the prostate itself. You need to read up on this to help us help you. also you should be asking your doctor these questions also, if he is not responsive get one who is.
Posted 4/5/2013 7:56 PM (GMT 0)
When I put your numbers into the Johns Hopkins Partin doo-dad, it said 49% chance organ-confined if your PSA is 4.2, your Gleason is 4+3, and your stage is T2a. Of course, that's just me dinking about on the web, but still..
Posted 4/5/2013 8:15 PM (GMT 0)
The MSKCC pre-treatment nomogram predicts (using additional information like age and proportion of cores positive)
68% organ confined
40% extracapsular penetration
2% seminal vesicle
2.2% lymph node involvement

Progression free probability after radical prostatectomy: 87% at 5 years, 81% at 10 years. Probability prostate cancer-specific survival: 99% at 10 years, 99% at 15 years with no additional treatment.

With brachytherapy instead of prostatectomy, 5 year progression free probability is about the same : 86%.

http://nomograms.mskcc.org/Prostate/PreTreatment.aspx
Posted 4/5/2013 8:19 PM (GMT 0)
Han Tables (Dr. Misop Han) predict probability of biochemical recurrence (BCR) , based on PSA, stage, and Gleason. In this case:

odds of BCR
3 years after surgery: 8% (2-23)
5 years after surgery: 12% (4-36)
7 years after surgery: 17% (5-47)
10 years after surgery: 22% (7-57)
Posted 4/5/2013 11:17 PM (GMT 0)
F8 said... sounds right moe.  my doc said there was a 60% chance that my PC had escaped the capsule but also felt that the cancer if escaped was still local.  we skipped surgery and did HT, BT, IGRT. That is what I am hearing from the RO, he is telling me there is a 50-70% chance I will need follow up radiation treatment after surgery. He is recommending IGRT followed with BT. I was leaning towards surgery but if the chances are that high I will end up needing radiation after the surgery then   just having the IGRT\BT may be my best option. .
Posted 4/5/2013 11:52 PM (GMT 0)
My logic in choosing my treatment was similar to your last comment. In my case, my oncologist told me he thought there was a 50-50 chance I would need radiation following surgery. As a result, I went with the IMRT/BT/HT combo since I didn't necessarily want to have both surgery and radiation. Plus, the success rates of my two paths were about the same. (And arguably even a bit better.)

My oncologist based his call on the usual suspects, such as my Gleason, # of cores that were positive and my PSA, but he also included ultrasound to get a better idea of the location of my tumors, as well as an MRI. Presumably your RO is basing his analysis on similar data for you. (At the same time I have a higher Gleason and PSA than you have, so I would have guessed your odds would be a bit lower than mine, not higher as your RO has suggested.)

Good luck as you work this out and let us know if we can provide any additional information.

Michael
Posted 4/6/2013 12:17 AM (GMT 0)
My Partins and nomograms all pointed to a high probability of the cancer being outside the gland.   My uro (surgeon) said no surgery.   HDR, IMRT and HT instead.   Another uro, med onc and two rad oncs all agreed.   All said to only use surgery if there is a very high probability of a cure.

Posted 4/6/2013 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
I would recommend open surgery with a surgeon that has at least 1000 open surgeries and really knows how to stitch the urethra together like an artist. Mine was Bruce Dalkin Seattle cancer clinic University of Washington. the recovery difference between robot and open is highly, highly overrated. I was opened up by 8 am on a monday and having lite lunch at a restaurant in SEA by noon wednesday. check my stats , other than significant gleason upgrade, my pathology was pretty, pretty, pretty good and still clean 3 1/2 years out. Doctor Dalkin ,etal was very very thorough. Not sure about my preop nom grams, but I do remember being worried as the were not anywhere near where i wanted them and was very concerned about capsule penetration. ps, so cool the extra mile the posters went with helping you on nomagrams, kudos' to all
Posted 4/6/2013 2:45 AM (GMT 0)
Logoslidat, I sent you a email about a month ago asking about your surgery. I have since met with Dr. Ellis at SCCA, he does both open and robotic.   I know which doctors I will use, just need to decide between surgery or radiation. I do appreciate everyones input. Thanks   Moe  
Posted 4/6/2013 5:19 AM (GMT 0)
I remember our communication. I did not make the connection to this post. coincidence, I praise the folks @ U Dub on this post , as am apt to do at times and its you. I like the open surgery because of the tactile feel the surgeons have, which is missing with robot. like surgery over radiation be cause of post op pathology, missing in any other treatment. But radiation has a comparable success rate, they say. Choose and ride tall!
Posted 4/2/2019 11:17 PM (GMT 0)
Logoslidat,
Newly diagnosed,
Gleason 3+3, 4 cores, PSA 4.3
Not sure if posts are still active, I am at the UW as well, Dr Ellis and DR Russell. Do you still feel the same about surgery over radiation? Robotic surgery is 6 years older now, whats your thoughts today on Robotic surgery?
Thanks!
Posted 4/2/2019 11:25 PM (GMT 0)
Jamerson,
Welcome to the forum. It would work better if you start a new thread and repost your information and questions.

Again, welcome.
Posted 4/3/2019 1:55 AM (GMT 0)
7 year old post. Sometimes old posts just appear.
Posted 4/3/2019 3:03 AM (GMT 0)
Just saw this...if I had to do it over again...and knew what I know now...I would do Brachy...of some sort...not up on the latest...on open vs robo...open wins it for me...that was all 10 years ago...so don't plan on going into the why's and whatzits...ive turned the corner on this disease...it it takes me...ich mach nix...sumpins got to...you only die once...ya live forever...is my mantra....if you want more info start a new thread...Seattle CancerCare Alliance rocks as does Bruce Dalkin...lotsa members here have been treated in the SEA area...good luck...and btw way...just for the record...im not a guru...I just play one on HW...yeh...I know...sad...tee hee I reread your post...you really need to start a new thread,,,start with punchin the new topic and follow the yellow brick road..your options are vast beyond your wildest hopes and dreams...just do it and listen to the responses...good luck and be cool..
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply