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Part II- Doug's protocol experiment second phase and working well

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Posted 5/15/2013 11:41 AM (GMT 0)
I reported not long ago on a friends theory put into protocol practice and he is a Gleason 9 failed RP and SRT and then various HT protocols, but always kept his psa under 2.33 via switching drugs, but was showing failures on Lupron, estradiol patches, gels, etc.

Recap:  first protocol experiment was this combo of drugs:  Lupron+Dexamethasone(1-mg daily)+estradiol patch (.1 mg)   His psa went from around 2.10 down to .007 within like one month. The following month to prove a point he switched to Prednisone to show that this other steroid type drug doesn't have the same pathways to effect DHT that Dexamethasone has.  He test psa and it rose from .007 to .20 and made that point. Then went back onto using Dexamethasone and here is the newest results.

The newest protocol and results via his experiment number 2:  now this time the Lupron has worn off and is not used again, so without Lupron used to lower his T level.  This time using 4 estradiol patches of the .1 mg doseage (so .4 mg total, they are good for 1 week, then change them out)+ Dexamethasone 1.0 mg (considered a low doseage level).  He also claims no side effects or any complaints in this protocol and it is relatively cheap in costs. His new psa using this protocol (w/o Lupron),  ultrasensitive tested:   .004  (amazing, and it is lower than his previous protocol which was similar).  This unique protocol is showing results in a few other patients whom are trying it right now, with lowered psa levels and no side effects (per se). I tried it and it didn't work for me, but almost everything is not working for me right now and trying out some things still on my own choices.

I think this is a big deal, atleast for someone to consider trying for a short term anyway, like while you are awaiting approval for more expensive treatments or awaiting clinical trial or just to try it. Somehow Dexamethasone seems to effect DHT level big time and Prednisone doesn't have the same pathway mechanism. Doug had his T levels and DHT levels checked also and the Dexa... surely lowered the DHT to ultra low. The 4 estradiol patches (.1 mg each) lowered his T level to around 5 this time, too.  One has to be pleased seeing results, especially with some hrpca cells and patient having no side effects on the protocol. It seems that this may work best in lower psa population of cells patients or early hrpca patients, it doesn't work as well or maybe not at all in psa levels perhaps over 20 to 40....from what we can glean right now in the 5-6 patients whom had tried it. One guy is over in Europe using this right now.

Posted 5/15/2013 4:19 PM (GMT 0)
Zufus,

Very impressive results! -- I hope they continue for a long time. One question -- if DHT is driving his PC, did he try Avodart?
Posted 5/15/2013 4:30 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, what about Avodart  ?
Posted 5/15/2013 4:44 PM (GMT 0)
Yes he used that drug years ago too. Everybody's PCa is fueled via DHT & T levels. Remember this guy is Gleason 9 and a number of years on HT related protocols and has actually failed on Lupron, estradiol patches, proscar and has used casodex a couple times (failure on it not clear). He did well on estradiol patches as mono therapy for a little while but then it didn't stop psa increases. I am pretty sure he used Avodart too, he is well versed in all drug therapies. We can get our psa tested here anytime, via a walkin location and our docs office visits, so he gets it tested whenever he wants, never waits more than a month. He found a location for ultrasensitive testings here too.

There is something to this Dexamethasone useage, especially for people with psa's maybe under 10-20 range, might not work at all with high psa levels (to much to fight???). Dexamethasone is cheap and 1 mg is well tolerated and you might be able to achieve same results even with .75 or so....so if trying long term and getting results you could dial it back perhaps.
Posted 5/15/2013 4:52 PM (GMT 0)
Great result for your friend. Keep us updated.
Can´t recall if you tried Celebrex? (but your heart health must be nearly perfect to take it). Recently saw this study clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/13/5/1611.full which I thought was interesting, EGCG (green tea polyphenols) enhanced function of Celebrex in vitro and in vivo. Most EGCG studies are done on prevention, and it does show benefit in cancer prevention, but don´t have any good results for T4 disease, however it may be worth a try in combo with Celebrex...
Posted 5/15/2013 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Zufus,
Do you know how much prednisone Doug use when he switch from dexamethasone? Dexamethasone (DXM) is a powerful steroid. I have seen it have amazing results in more than one patient. Unfortunately, in time the effect subsided but it is something to consider.

Almost 20 years ago, Storlie et al at Mayo treated resistant patients with dexamethasone with decent results, but these were mostly ignored...

In the recent past, I read about the potential mechanism of DXM in inhibiting DHT. See sources below:

Storlie JA, Buckner JC, Wiseman GA, Burch PA, Hartmann LC, Richardson RL. Prostate specific antigen levels and clinical response to low dose dexamethasone for hormone-refractory metastatic prostate carcinoma. Cancer. 1995 Jul 1;76(1):96-100. PubMed PMID: 8630883.

Alain Veilleux et al.
Glucocorticoid-induced androgen inactivation by aldo-keto reductase 1C2 (AKR1C2) promotes adipogenesis in human preadipocytes. Laval University Medical Center [email protected]
Submitted 16 February 2011. Revision received 21 December 2011. Accepted 18 January 2012.

Glad to see that Doug has responded so well to DXM. Hope that he is watching his glucose level and that E2 is preserving his bone integrity.

RalphV
Posted 5/16/2013 1:58 AM (GMT 0)
Special Lady- saw the PCRI 2012 video yesterday with Dr. Myers talks, included Celebrex just have to worry about it stiffening your arteries type thing, for some people it would be risky stuff but otherwise is something to consider using and works on PCa.

Ralph V.- Thanks for the reply Ralph I have copied and will send Doug that info. Doug goes back a few years in this PCa stuff, he and Harry Pinchot formulated some questions for the PCRI panel oncologist guys, years ago....Harry instilled him back then 'learn all you can and never stop doing so'....he ran with that big time. You have seen plenty in your PCa history, pretty interesting to see this type of psa drop within a scenario like he has.
Posted 5/17/2013 2:16 PM (GMT 0)
Ralph- yes when he switched from Dexa. to Prednisone(just to prove a point) he knows the math (equation of the drugs), I think it was 7 mg Prednisone (anyway he knows all that stuff). He went right back on Dexa. after seeing the psa go up, why let it rise.

Also this tidbit Doug sent me:  


Systemic corticosteroid therapy

Corticosteroid therapy with low-dose prednisone or dexa-methasone may also offer improvements in PSA values and/or palliative outcomes in up to 30% of patients in both symptomatic and asymptomatic men. Steroids may also exert an anti-neoplastic effect on prostate cancer.4,5 Level 3 Evidence, Grade C recommendation

Post Edited (zufus) : 5/17/2013 8:19:48 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/17/2013 2:25 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Zufus. DXM has a longer half-life than prednisone so it is possible that this is related to the beneficial effect. Thanks for getting back to us with the info and tell Doug that I too benefited greatly from communications with Harry Pinchot. He was a great source! He is missed.

RalphV
Posted 5/30/2013 10:50 AM (GMT 0)
Bumped with updated results on some of us guys whom tried this protocol:
: Update on Doug's protocol phase II and psa at .004 (w/o lupron added)


Here is some initial results in 5 men whom tried this, including myself and it did not work in my case, but that did not surprise me with my scenario, stats, and being 11 yrs. into PCa with high risk stats from 2002.

Still a lot of questions about this protocol but evidence exists that something is here to be studied and noted:

THERE ARE 5 PCa PATIENTS THAT HAVE TRIED DEXAMETHASONE+(with Lupron & Estradiol patch)

1. PSA BELOW 2 ng/ml………… WENT DOWN TO 0.004 UNDETECTABLE *
2. PSA BELOW 8 ng/ml………… WENT DOWN TO 3.2-- “NOW 1,7”---ATLANTA GA.
3. PSA BELOW 17 ng/ml…………WENT DOWN TO 14.6 THEN UP TO 19 *
4. PSA BELOW 19 ng/ml…………WENT DOWN TO 14.4-- NOW 8.1 ---ENGLAND ***
PSA BELOW 25 ng/ml…………WENT UP TO THE MID 30’s

*(Doug's prior psa with Lupron+Dexa- 1 mg+estradiol .1 patch, was .007.....next time was with No Lupron but with Dexamethasone 1 mg+ Estradiol patches (4) .1mg each=.4 mg)= .004 psa

Note: does not seem to work with Prednisone substituted even if equaled dosage value at 7 mg of Pred., tested that theory and psa went up during that experiment that Doug proved on himself. Yes, this is kind of like a mini clinical trial concept by guys whom are willing to seek alternatives and options. Sure it opens up a ton of new questions and unknowns, when is PCa simplistic in HT related therapies? The good news is that there is something worthy happening in some patients (all of whom were failing on there previous HT protocols). We will monitor Doug's and others on going progress on this concept.
Posted 5/30/2013 12:23 PM (GMT 0)
Zufus, thanks for reporting the results. I assume numbers 2, 8, 17, 19 and 25 were the PSA values before they started on a protocol? Was it a monthly or trimonthly PSA follow-up? It seems that it works for some guys, good for them!
Posted 5/30/2013 1:07 PM (GMT 0)
Yes those were the psa values prior (and all were having psa failures, non-controlled psa's). Most of us get monthly psa tests, not sure of the guy in England but maybe his just fell into the shorter waiting program. Three of us here have access to walkin psa testing at a local hospital for $15 and you can go as often as you wish, results mailed to you and your doc....it's a beautiful thing. We also get psa's from our docs office, I see mine monthly, also.

Since it is in effect a mini clinical trial (lol) and experimental stuff, lots of questions and unknowns, so far two of us that still have prostates (radiation patients) did not respond to this protocol (could be our risk factors too and fighting this for such a long time, too). Higher psa levels might not respond well or people with mets sites known, we just don't know. Need more guys to try this out, suggested that psa's under 20 may respond better than anything a lot over that level, guessing though. Thanks for the reply.
Posted 10/30/2013 1:22 PM (GMT 0)
New update it is now close to one year since Doug started his protocol concept. He just recently had more blood tests done, including T level, DHT level, estradiol level and others. His PSA is still undetectable and <.01 he can  no longer get the ultra sensitive testings at the prior location, but still is likely around .005-.007 still in actuality.

Pretty interesting that such a protocol could be devised by a layperson and render such results in a Gleason 9 patient whom failed RP, fail SRT, failed on some ADT drugs and found a new way for control. It won't work for just anybody or everybody, but under similar things he has done, like keeping psa very low and sequencing drugs to keep it that way prior to this protocol....is likely paramount. Low tumor burden and psa is important in this concept. Another guy in Georgia has tried this and getting reduced psa's still and ongoing (not as low as Doug's thus far).

He has posted updates at his yananow.org experiences site and Paact Newsletter has his original information posted on this protocol and one of his docs is handing out copies to other docs and people, just for awareness.  Doug F. (Michigan) at the yananow site, you can find it.

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