Diet?

sheepguy said...

Most of the things recommended taste so bad that you won't eat much.

Not my experience at all! I suppose I'm lucky, my wife is a GREAT cook and we love to experiment together...with cooking, too!

Congratulations on the weight loss!

island time said...
I watched what I ate before cancer.

During these treatments....i keep seeing all those juicy hamburgers I've left sitting on the counter tops of life behind me.

Time to flip that record over. If it looks good...I'm all over it from here on out!

I wish we knew. Many posters say "no proof at all one way or the other" but then give recommendations "for a healthy diet". I can't help but wonder what healthy is, at least scientifically proven healthy.

Not long after my surgery I was fairly impressed with a big study out of Harvard that indicates poultry, most especially with skin, and eggs were by far the greatest culprits related to recurrence of men who had been treated. They also found zero correlation - even negative in some quartiles, with red meat even when processed. Even the highest quartile had zero increase in recurrence, maybe even less than the lowest quartile.

Now normally, I would not pay much attention to that stuff. But, I must admit I ate plenty of eggs and chicken even with skin prior to diagnosis, so that made me wonder. Still, I also ponder how they really know, how they are able to separate eggs from meat and how accutate their findings are. Here is why: Don't most men who eat eggs and chicken also eat red meat, processed or not? I feel it would be rare to find a guy who ate lots of eggs who did not also eat plenty of chicken and steak. So, how do they know really who is eating lots of eggs but not beef? I'm sure this was self reported, but it seems like it might be unreliable info if they had many guys consuming lots of eggs but little meat.
Bill

OK, last night I was too sleepy to finish this post. So I am going to pick back up where I left off. Starting with the previous post from me:

Somebody said...
island time said...
I watched what I ate before cancer.

During these treatments....i keep seeing all those juicy hamburgers I've left sitting on the counter tops of life behind me.

Time to flip that record over. If it looks good...I'm all over it from here on out!




I wish we knew. Many posters say "no proof at all one way or the other" but then give recommendations "for a healthy diet". I can't help but wonder what healthy is, at least scientifically proven healthy.

Not long after my surgery I was fairly impressed with a big study out of Harvard that indicates poultry, most especially with skin, and eggs were by far the greatest culprits related to recurrence of men who had been treated. They also found zero correlation - even negative in some quartiles, with red meat even when processed. Even the highest quartile had zero increase in recurrence, maybe even less than the lowest quartile.

Now normally, I would not pay much attention to that stuff. But, I must admit I ate plenty of eggs and chicken even with skin prior to diagnosis, so that made me wonder. Still, I also ponder how they really know, how they are able to separate eggs from meat and how accutate their findings are. Here is why: Don't most men who eat eggs and chicken also eat red meat, processed or not? I feel it would be rare to find a guy who ate lots of eggs who did not also eat plenty of chicken and steak. So, how do they know really who is eating lots of eggs but not beef? I'm sure this was self reported, but it seems like it might be unreliable info if they had many guys consuming lots of eggs but little meat.
Bill

Okay, so back on that thought about red meat vs processed red meat vs eggs vs chicken: so that Harvard study found a big Association in recurrence and poultry(Particularly with skin) and/or eggs, but zero association between red meat and processed red meat.(They seemed very surprised by their own findings) but I still don't understand how it is they can separate the red meat eaters from the chicken eaters from the egg eaters. Are there really significant numbers of guys out there who eat lots of eggs but avoid either red meat, processed red meat or chicken? If not, should I take these results with a large grain of salt?

Here's why I would really like to know the answer, and know how reliable the information is that tells me that eggs and chicken are terrible for prostate cancer. I have seen other studies that make a strong case that increased blood levels of insulin strongly(to put it mildly) contribute to the growth of various cancers. In addition, I have always had my best success at reducing my weight when I take various low carbohydrate approaches. Works for me. Eggs for breakfast just seem to be very natural when trying to do a low carbohydrate diet. And I always find that type of breakfast very filling, easily holding me(no hunger) for many many hours. Sometimes all day.

I have also read many different places how the body's insulin production is slashed to very low levels when keeping the carbohydrates at a very low level. Which would totally makes sense, because physiology books tell us that the pancreas dumps insulin into the bloodstream in response to consumption of carbohydrates. Much less insulin production in response to protein alone especially in reasonable amounts. And zero production of insulin in response to fat consumption(alone) in any amount.

In other words, it looks to me like a bit of a rock and hard place. Some evidence(or at least strong suggestion/correlation) that eggs(and chicken) are terrible for prostate cancer patients. But at least an equal amount of evidence(or very strong suggestion) that insulin is at least as bad and maybe quite a bit worse. A low carb diet including plenty of eggs will lead to lower blood insulin. Will the insulin decrease be better for me then the harm that the eggs (supposedly) provide? Now admittedly I could eat low-carb without eating eggs or chicken. But in my opinion it sure does make it a pain in the butt compared to including both of those foods in the diet. Plus, there's only so many years left and I do enjoy eggs and chicken. I don't want to be giving them up unless there is some clear evidence that I should do so, and should do so even if I'm trying to eat low-carb.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 12/22/2015 10:53:50 AM (GMT-7)

Oh, one more thing on the subject of eggs. They are far and away the best dietary source of choline(just edited to correct danged auto correct). The guys with the theory that eggs are bad for people with prostate cancer also seem to think it is the choline in the egg yolk that is the problem.

So here we have yet another rock and hard place. Choline is an essential nutrient especially related to nerve and central nervous system/Brain Health. Deficiency of choline intake may also be associated with Alzheimer's, Or so some people seem to think. I read way more from people who seem to think that we get to little choline in our diet for optimal overall health than the opposite.

No matter. I just got a phone call from the boss (my wife) commanding me to boil up a couple of eggs, because she's on the way home with the grandkids and is going to make us all chicken salad. So eggs and chicken in one fell swoop. I may not live through the afternoon.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 12/22/2015 11:20:36 AM (GMT-7)

InTheShop said...

BillyBob@388 said...
I just got a phone call from my wife commanding me to boil up a couple of eggs, because she's on the way home with the grand kids and is going to make us all chicken salad. So eggs and chicken in one fell swoop. I may not live through the afternoon.

But if you don't boil the eggs you might not live through lunch.

Take the longer road and enjoy your last afternoon...


Andrew

Good advice, I will take it. Previous post edited to add "the boss(my wife)".

JackH said...



While it has been demonstrated that by altering one's diet we may favorably affect the biology of prostate cancer...my diet choices are much more focused--as it sounds like InTheShop's are, too--on improving my odds against heart disease.

Diet, undoubtedly, is the frontier in the prevention of cancer which will be explored and developed in the next decade, but heart disease is the number one killer of all men diagnosed with prostate cancer today, and 90% of men diagnosed with PC aren't going to have their longevity affected by the PC anyhow...

Great point Jack-

I'm only a year into this, and still learning, but I remember reading somewhere about some types of treatments having an effect on heart health...