Boosting the Immune System

Been thinking about how one can boost their immune system to fend off possible recurrence (or even another cancer).

So I'm curious, what is the collective wisdom here on how to do so. Obviously, good diet is important. But from all I've read, nobody REALLY knows what good diet means these days.

Supplements, diet, exercise, yoga, mindfulness?

What are you doing to boost your immune system?

My guess is,
Probiotics for gut bacteria.
Mushrooms

During the cancer development process, the cancerous cell develops the ability to avoid the immune system. As healthy cells follow the pathway toward becoming full-blown cancer cells, they are constantly mutating (or changing) their genetic information. Some of these mutations enable them to avoid detection by the immune system. Others allow cancer cells to speed up their growth rate and multiply much more quickly than normal cells do. This process overwhelms the immune system and allows the cancer to grow unchecked. Just boosting your immune system doesn't do much. It needs to be 'taught' to recognize the cancer cells. That can be done by means of the cell's antigens for example. This is how Provenge works. I have very little medical training and none on the aspect of cancer, but I doubt very much that (black) tea will work.

RobertC said...
My guess is,
Probiotics for gut bacteria.
Mushrooms

+1 on that, good call.

Nick2017 said...
Answer: Watch "What The Health", a new documentary on Netflix. Deals a lot with the immune system.

I am a life long red meat eater and unfortunately lots of deadly deli meats. Since watching it I have been a Vegan for two days! Definitely check it out!

Nick

Wow! I'm watching this now and it is shocking! I knew we needed to change his diet to avoid red meat and dairy but I had no idea chicken/poultry was so dangerous as far as PCa.

They just said eating poultry increases the risk of recurrance by 4 times.

Here's the part of the movie I just heard. Is this true? What can he eat? Is fish ok or does it have to be just plant based?


MEN WITH A HIGH PROGNOSTIC RISK AND A HIGH POULTRY INTAKE HAD A 4-FOLD INCREASED RISK OF RECURRENCE OR PROGRESSION

Richman, Erin L, et al "Intakes of meat, fish, poultry and eggs andrisk of prostate cancer progression". The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2010 Mar; 91(3): 712-721

Protoman
This is a great subject that I've been thinking about a lot lately interesting replies so far. To my mind I can't rely on all the drugs and supplements and such to carry me through in the near future. Indeed, if the future of cancer treatment best lies in immunotherapy then one would think that you're basic immune system holds the key to a strong defense.
I've come this far relying on those little white pills and strong meds the doctors prescribed. Also come this far not keeping to a good diet like I should be or exercising like I should be. Also not learning enough about the immune system to be well-educated.
So thanks for this post and the information that people are sharing.
Logo- thanks also about the warning about misinformation
Winging it

Nick2017 said...
Answer: Watch "What The Health", a new documentary on Netflix. Deals a lot with the immune system.

I am a life long red meat eater and unfortunately lots of deadly deli meats. Since watching it I have been a Vegan for two days! Definitely check it out!

Nick

I'm about 35 minutes into this documentary, and I'm totally depressed.
I'll probably comment more tomorrow, but for now, it just seems like I can choose between eating lettuce and broccoli for the rest of my life, or I might as well just step in front of a speeding train.
It's nothing I haven't heard before, it just really drives it home.

Tim,

about 4 years ago my husband somehow got a terrible case of cdiff that landed him in the hospital in isolation for a week. A big part of his treatment was probiotics and he's been taking them ever since. He says they make a big difference on how he feels. He has no more bloating and VERY rarely has gas (I hope this is not too detailed but I can tell you on the rare occasion he does have gas it does not smell for some reason) one of the biggest changes for him is he is regular almost to the hour. They've made a pretty big difference for the better for him.

After being diagnosed with heart disease, I read the book Wheat Belly, a ny times bestsellers written by Dr. William Davis, an interventional cardiologist who "saw the light ". I am now halfway through his new book "Undoctored".

His claim is similar to what is discussed on the Netflix documentary What the H@ll, and he too, points out the conflicts in the healthcare industry, and the fact that they are Focused on taking care of sick people not on keeping people from getting sick he also points out the conflicts inherent in the relationships between organizations like the American Cancer Society and the American Heart Association and American diabetes Association, and the fact that their sponsors of the drug companies the treat those diseases, and the food companies that create it. He claims the government advice on diet is all wrong. So he's in synch on those points with the vegan advocates in the Netflix documentary.

But that's where the similarities and. He advocates grain free, wheat free, no whole grains, sugar freebut plenty of meat poultry and fish as long as it's organic, grass fed, and wild caught. I am on a website that he sponsors and there are people on there that's where they have reversed their heart disease by following his program. He claims that saturated fat is not bad, and the carbs are the poison.

I've been following his diet on and off for about a year and a half. When I was following it strictly my triglycerides which Have always been my problem plunged from the 300s down to 86 without meds. I've mentioned this before

So that's why in the above mentioned post I mentioned that the documentary depressed me. Here we have two camps, both highly respected in the medical field, with opposing views on what we should be putting into our mouth. So what do we do. I'm aware of the science behind ORnish, Esselstyn, et al, but I'm also aware of the real life examples and the cites of science behind Davis.

I haven't read the link in Jim's post above to the counterpoint to this documentary but I'm looking forward to doing it later today. Seriously what are we supposed to do there's no real solid consensus about how to stay healthy. It's unbelievable to say that in the 21st century. We put a man on the moon decades ago, yet we can't figure out what healthy eating means.

Nick here, I recommended the Netflix documentary. I'm on Day 3 on my Vegan experiment.

But...about 10+ years ago I was diagnosed with an enlarged heart (cardiomyopathy) and Type 2 diabetes. Freaking out, I did a lot of deep dives researching and started on the Dean Ornish diet, which pretty much was eating lettuce and water for a year. Lost a lot of weight but did nothing for the diabetes and heart, although I'm still alive. Alive long enough to get diagnosed with PC.

I am highly suspicious of the unregulated nutritional supplement industry, having been a professional videographer and producer for 40 years, I worked on many infomercials that I found questionable. They are marketing to the desperate and naive. I now only trust prospective, randomized, controlled studies (see Dr Chodak's book, Winning the Battle Against PC, page 30). Most all supplements are BS, even if they started out with some truth, the heat treatment, etc. can take the benefits out of them. For instance, I am now on prescription strength Omega 3, called Vascepa, because 99% of what you can buy at the natural food store is not sufficient or is tainted. If you are dead set on taking that that and risking snake oil, it is smart to get a one month subscription to www.consumerlabs.org, an impartial non profit lab, and input what you are taking. I found that many Costco supplements were of the same strength as the really expensive ones. But...the studies they are all based on is usually suspect.

Also over my 41 year career I filmed dozens of PR documentaries for many K Street lobbying outfits, often in the guise of astro turf groups, usually to influence legislation and anti-regulation. I know how DC operates, so when the Netflix documentary What The Health analyzed the diets recommended by such seemingly benign outfits such as the Amer Diabetes Assoc and American Cancer Society, I already knew about why they were backsliding on nutritional recommendations. I knew from professional experience that once the "influencers" (like Kraft, a former client of mine) start supporting the non-profit, they have the power to exert their influence, not just with money but with infiltrating their people onto boards, studies, etc. Same with the US Food Pyramid. In sum, you can't rust anyone. It's all BS unless it comes from the NIH, or one of the big 10 NCNN hospitals. That is all I am paying attention to, although I am an avid consumer of anything PC related.

Here's something of interest in today's paper, I forwarded it to my buddy who is the head of fundraising for a leukemia patient support non-profit. As such, he has to be nice to Big Pharma, which is a very beneficial necessity but as we who read know, has a dark side. As mentioned in the documentary: Who has a financial interest to cure diabetes? No one. There would be a terrible profit fall off if diabetes is cured, especially no that the Third World (oops! I meant Developing Nations) are getting obese and coming down with Type 2.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/06/20/u2s-the-edge-talks-up-food-as-an-anti-cancer-weapon/?utm_term=.3c86e6841d36

But for those above who feel only genes play a part in getting cancer, how do you explain the relationship of a pastrami diet and colon cancer, cigarettes and lung cancer, etc.? It is also behavioral and environmental. Matter of fact, I live on a golf course, that's my backyard. They spray constantly. My PC cancer makes us three houses in a row with cancer! Bladder, melanoma and my PC. Go figure...

So, am I grasping at straws trying to help my fight against the PC within me by altering my diet? Perhaps, but it can make my body stronger for other purposes, such as the prostatectomy I face in exactly two weeks.

Nick

Pratoman,

I hear what you are saying about the conflicting expert's opinions.

I had a neighbor who was rabid on the Wheat Belly's program and we had many a long discussion. The program really worked for him; however, he could never stay on it very long and was always going back on it.

For me it was way too much meat; therefore, a few years back I decided I would give up on foods that everyone agreed I didn't need to eat ..... PROCESSED FOODS like donuts, cheetos, milk shakes, Big Macs, etc etc. and I increased the vegetables. Any meat (usually fish or chicken) is lean and grains are whole grains.

Pretty much Mediterranean.

Worked for me and I've been able to stick with it.

Jack & Diane said...

Nick2017 said...
Answer: Watch "What The Health", a new documentary on Netflix. Deals a lot with the immune system.

I am a life long red meat eater and unfortunately lots of deadly deli meats. Since watching it I have been a Vegan for two days! Definitely check it out!

Nick

Wow! I'm watching this now and it is shocking! I knew we needed to change his diet to avoid red meat and dairy but I had no idea chicken/poultry was so dangerous as far as PCa.

They just said eating poultry increases the risk of recurrance by 4 times.

Here's the part of the movie I just heard. Is this true? What can he eat? Is fish ok or does it have to be just plant based?


MEN WITH A HIGH PROGNOSTIC RISK AND A HIGH POULTRY INTAKE HAD A 4-FOLD INCREASED RISK OF RECURRENCE OR PROGRESSION

Richman, Erin L, et al "Intakes of meat, fish, poultry and eggs andrisk of prostate cancer progression". The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2010 Mar; 91(3): 712-721

Well, the problem, as almost always is, wait a while to get a study you like. That study you mentioned out of Harvard was a bit of bad news for a big chicken and egg eater like me, and I really cut back for a long while on both. But I personally like this one a little better ( ) as it does lowers the egg risk to something a lot less scary and actually shows chicken consumption to be- sit down for this- protective. I suggest scrolling down through the charts and look at the actual % increase in risk for various categories.
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4837898/

Living near the beach....
Salt air and water...
Sunshine...
Acceptance
open-mindedness
Forgiveness
Freeing oneself of negative attitudes and emotions...
lots of laughter untrained at another's expense...
Balance in all things (including food)
And accepting the love of a good woman with gratitude and without condition....

That surely has as much to do with building the immune system as any Hanoi Hilton Diet can.