Type 2 Diabetes and Pca

I'm a Type 2 diabetic diagnosed more than 10 years ago. It's a problem that plagued both sides of the family. I've always been an avid exerciser and kept my weight down. But it caught up with me too. I've managed it with medication (Metformin), diet & exercise. I've managed to stay off insulin (knock on wood) - since my A1C stays between 6.6 and 7.3 during routine checks. I monitor it with glucose testing at home. I go to great pains to limit my intake of carbs, especially after 7pm.

Some experts have claimed that Metformin may help delay Pca progression. So coincidentally maybe I've been helped by the drug over the years. Who knows?

I briefly researched Type 2 diabetes and Pca. Some of it appeared contradictory and confused me. But the research I found indicated that Type 2 diabetics w/ Pca have a somewhat higher rate of Pca specific mortality than non-Type 2 diabetics. However, of interest, I read that epidemiological studies seemed to show that men with Type 2 diabetes are less likely to have Pca as compared to men w/o Type 2 diabetes. Go figure.

If I ever have to cross the bridge into RT or ADT I understand those treatments can have adverse side effects on Type 2 diabetes, and Coronary Artery Disease, which is known to be fairly common w/ Type 2 diabetics. Apparently there is a risk for increased glucose levels that must be closely monitored - as well as cardiac function.

Are any of you knowledgeable or do you have first-hand experience about the co-management of these 2 diseases - during pre-treatment or various treatment phases of Pca?

Thanks in advance for any input.

TJ123 said...
I'm a Type 2 diabetic diagnosed more than 10 years ago. It's a problem that plagued both sides of the family. I've always been an avid exerciser and kept my weight down. But it caught up with me too. I've managed it with medication (Metformin), diet & exercise. I've managed to stay off insulin (knock on wood) - since my A1C stays between 6.6 and 7.3 during routine checks. I monitor it with glucose testing at home. I go to great pains to limit my intake of carbs, especially after 7pm.

Some experts have claimed that Metformin may help delay Pca progression. So coincidentally maybe I've been helped by the drug over the years. Who knows?

I briefly researched Type 2 diabetes and Pca. Some of it appeared contradictory and confused me. But the research I found indicated that Type 2 diabetics w/ Pca have a somewhat higher rate of Pca specific mortality than non-Type 2 diabetics. However, of interest, I read that epidemiological studies seemed to show that men with Type 2 diabetes are less likely to have Pca as compared to men w/o Type 2 diabetes. Go figure.

If I ever have to cross the bridge into RT or ADT I understand those treatments can have adverse side effects on Type 2 diabetes, and Coronary Artery Disease, which is known to be fairly common w/ Type 2 diabetics. Apparently there is a risk for increased glucose levels that must be closely monitored - as well as cardiac function.

Are any of you knowledgeable or do you have first-hand experience about the co-management of these 2 diseases - during pre-treatment or various treatment phases of Pca?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Hi TJ,

And welcome to the group! Coincidentally, I have started several threads on this general subject in recent months, i.e. the relationship of PC and/or PC risk levels and mortality to diabetes, blood sugar and consumption of sugar/carbs and most importantly excess levels of blood insulin and insulin resistance.

It is true that some have argued that diabetes(T2D), while being a potential negative with all other cancers and many other health issues, is actually protective against PC. I have been stating my opinion that it is not at all the T2D that is protective, but rather the treatment for the same. Especially the early treatments, which emphasize diet and oral drugs like Metformin, both of which lower both insulin resistance and the actual blood levels of insulin.

As T2D on average gets diagnosed, and treatment for same tends to start MANY years before PC is typically diagnosed(even children these days are diagnosed with what used to be called adult onset diabetes), my argument is that it is the lowered insulin levels in this group that is protective, rather than the diabetes itself. In the meantime, large segments of the population who have not yet been diagnosed with T2D probably have chronically high levels of blood insulin(rarely measured), which their bodies need to generate in an attempt to keep there blood sugar and A1C levels(commonly measured) below the level which gives them a T2D diagnoses. So compared to this group, at least until they have to start injecting insulin(if diet and insulin resistance lowering drugs don't get it done), they have less PC. That is my theory any way. It does not seem to generate much interest among either doctors or patients, but I think it is correct.

So my opinion is that, FWIW and it is probably worth what you pay for it LOL!, whatever you can do to keep your blood insulin and insulin resistance on the lower side will not only benefit you in your battle against diabetes, but also in your battle against PC. Plus heart disease, stroke, peripheral neuropathy, kidney disease, etc. And guess what? "What's more, the new research shows that some diabetes medications may actually help treat and/or prevent the progressive brain disorder."
/www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/20060717/diabetes-link-alzheimers#1

The good news is that there are numerous non-drug way to keep your blood insulin low, probably better than the drugs do. The most obvious being that minimizing net carbs(carb minus fiber = net carb) and sugar in your diet. Also, intermittent fasting has shown good results in lowering blood insulin. As an extreme example, if one ate zero carbs for a few days or maybe a week, blood insulin would be dramatically lowered(protein does also cause some insulin to be secreted though, fat little to none). Fasting for a couple of days(zero carb, zero protein, zero fat except for your own body's stored glucose and when that is soon gone your own fat which will be consumed) will pretty much bring blood insulin down to zero. Less extreme approaches will lower insulin, which I think is a good thing.

There is a kidney specialist, Jason Fung, who treats a bunch of diabetics in his practice. In his book he reports great success in getting his T2D patients to be med free, by the use of intermittent fasting and/or low carb diets. But my bet is he is also helping any of them that have PC, or have it but have not yet been diagnosed, as well as patients with all manner of health issues related to high blood insulin, like their hearts and brains and limbs. So, keep on keeping that insulin lower! (IMO)

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 2/21/2018 8:06:54 AM (GMT-7)

TJ123 said...
That's some great information and advice, BB. Much appreciated.

In addition to having T2D - I have some pretty severe CAD. As I mentioned, I'm an avid exerciser. I've been athletic all my life. I go to the gym 4-5 times a week, 40 minutes of vigorous exercise on the Stair Master for each workout then I alternate between swimming or light weights. I believe exercise and the fact that I've never smoked is the reason I'm still above soil. I had a brother who died of a massive coronary at 49. He was a smoker. Lots of CAD on my mom's side of the family.

During my review of the research I noted that insulin spikes are believed by some to be responsible for acceleration in Pca progression. You seemed to allude to that. The literature makes it quite clear that those with T2D and Pca appear to have an increased risk for Pca specific mortality. Rarely does my glucose fall below 100. I'm normally in the range of 120-170 (and that's w/ watching my diet pretty darn close). As I mentioned my A1C generally falls between 6.6 and 7.3. They say if a T2D can keep the A1C at or under 7 he's doing pretty well. For me it's a battle. If I just ate a normal diet w/ carbs, fruit, snacks and occasional ice cream. pie or cake my A1C would be well over 9.5. Based on the challenges that T2D presents - in your opinion where should our glucose levels be? Lets say the average 3 month level is 145 (about a 6.7 A1C equivalent). Are you saying it's not so much the average level - but to avoid the insulin spikes that goes along with increase glucose levels, like after a meal? Would you suggest smaller meals spread out through the day? As you know, they say T2D is a progressive disease. I'm trying to hold it at bay.

If I ever have to undergo RT or ADT I'm concerned about the side-effects on my T2D or CAD. I understand ADT (Lupron) is definitely cardio-toxic. Allegedly Firmagon to a lesser extent. Hopefully I won't have to cross that bridge. But if I do I want to have a plan formulated before I get there. Any information on that?

I think I'll attempt intermittent fasting (as you suggest) - a day at a time - or at least make it a habit to cut out all food after 6pm then go light on breakfast. But nutrition is important so I have to managed my diet so that it provides all the important essential vitamins, minerals, etc. The body has to be strong to fight Pca. The docs I have know next to nothing about nutrition.

Some of the supplements I take for Pca include Resveratrol, Cayenne capsules, Pomegranate extract and Salmon oil. I eat lots of broccoli and greens too.

Managing these 3 diseases (CAD, T2D and Pca) is not easy. It's a juggling act.

Thanks again, BB.

You are very welcome, TJ. Actually, I should thank you because there have only been a couple of folks that even found my several previous threads on this subject interesting enough to respond too! And here you come bringing the subject ( diabetes/insulin/PC/CV health etc.) up yourself, giving me a chance to discus it! So thanks!

But 1st off, keep in mind I am not an MD and certainly not 1 who specializes in diabetes! I am simply a recently retired anesthesia provider ( CRNA ) who likes to read what the experts write about this subject, share it and bring up questions for discussion. So always keep that in mind about anything I say. Though I certainly have strong opinions on this general subject, that is all they are: my opinions

When you say: "Are you saying it's not so much the average level - but to avoid the insulin spikes that goes along with increase glucose levels, like after a meal? Would you suggest smaller meals spread out through the day? As you know, they say T2D is a progressive disease. I'm trying to hold it at bay. ".
I actually feel closer to the opposite. As bad as the spikes may be, a higher average of blood sugar levels almost guarantees higher average levels of blood insulin along with the spikes, and thus more insulin resistance. It is this that has been very highly associated with the more aggressive PCs and mortality(3 to8 times higher in some links I have posted in previous threads I started on this subject). And, I lean away from smaller meals spread through out the day and towards eating less often, even to the point of fasting occasionally. Eating more often is going to almost guarantee- IMO of course- a chronically higher level of blood insulin, which your body will need in order to try and keep your blood sugars lower. Just think, if you eat at 6PM and not after, if you get up at 6AM you already have a 12 hour fast going. It has been easy for me to add to that until going supper to supper 1 or 2 days a week, then I eat whatever I want. Just doing that kept me from putting on my annual Thanksgiving/Christmas/Birthday 10 lbs as I do most years, then fight the rest of the year trying to take it off. This year, though I feasted frequently, and partook of all of the desserts, I ended up down a couple of pounds!

If you want more sugar and insulin in your blood stream, then eat more often, and especially eat carbs. Eat more often to guarantee a supply of both, rather than forcing your body to devour it's own fat for energy, which would require almost zero insulin. If you want more trigycerides(TGLs) in your blood, and a less HDL(so called good cholesterol) then eat more carbs and less fat. Ask our member Pratoman (Ken) about carbs and his TGLs!

The saying " T2D is a progressive disease." is one of the most often repeated phrases in Jason Fungs book on dealing with diabetes. Though he is a nephrologist, he deals with many diabetics as it is the main cause of kidney failure. And that saying is what most of his diabetic patients tell him they have been told by their diabetes doctors. He flat out claims it is not, that itis simply a nutritional disease, and claims to very often cure patients with diet. By cure I mean he even gets many insulin injecting T2D folks off of all meds. Now if you want some high blood insulin, how about an insulin resistant patient whose blood insulin is already sky high,who now has to start injecting additional insulin into his body? And the over all health and PC implications of that situation is grim. Or, here is a thought: one could remove all need for blood insulin at all- and STOP signaling the pancreas to secrete more insulin- by eating low carb, low to moderate protein and high fat. Or maybe just cutting carbs a good bit with the occasional fast? Gee, I wonder which is better- I like to ask docs- that diet or injecting insulin?

I highly recommend you go to Amazon and get Jason Fung's book "The Complete Guide to Fasting". It is mostly about how he deals with diabetes and insulin resistance, I think you will find it very interesting, among other good books on the subject. Remember, low carb eating can lower insulin and sugar, but fasting is zero carb, zero protein and zero fat for however many hours or days one chooses to do it. Body stores of glucose will be rapidly depleted, and the insulin level will plummet as you switch to fat burning for energy.

In the meantime: I have noticed the proponents of veganism have recently been claiming that saturate fat is the cause of insulin resistance and diabetes. Well who knows, I certainly don't, maybe they will be proved right. But there are a few clinical trials that seem to indicate just the opposite, like this one: Here is the link:
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3981696/

Here is a table from that study:
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3981696/table/pone-0091027-t003/

There was simply no comparison between the low calorie, low fat diet and the high fat, low carb, moderate protein approch which was not even calorie restricted, when it came to diabetes control and reducing needed meds.

Somebody said...

Abstract

We compared the effects of two diets on glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c) and other health-related outcomes in overweight or obese adults with type 2 diabetes or prediabetes (HbA1c>6%). We randomized participants to either a medium carbohydrate, low fat, calorie-restricted, carbohydrate counting diet (MCCR) consistent with guidelines from the American Diabetes Association (n = 18) or a very low carbohydrate, high fat, non calorie-restricted diet whose goal was to induce nutritional ketosis (LCK, n = 16). We excluded participants receiving insulin; 74% were taking oral diabetes medications. Groups met for 13 sessions over 3 months and were taught diet information and psychological skills to promote behavior change and maintenance.

At 3 months, mean HbA1c level was unchanged from baseline in the MCCR diet group, while it decreased 0.6% in the LCK group; there was a significant between group difference in HbA1c change favoring the LCK group (−0.6%, 95% CI, −1.1% to −0.03%, p = 0.04).

Forty-four percent of the LCK group discontinued one or more diabetes medications, compared to 11% of the MCCR group (p = 0.03); 31% discontinued sulfonylureas in the LCK group, compared to 5% in the MCCR group (p = 0.05). The LCK group lost 5.5 kg vs. 2.6 kg lost in MCCR group (p = 0.09). Our results suggest that a very low carbohydrate diet coupled with skills to promote behavior change may improve glycemic control in type 2 diabetes while allowing decreases in diabetes medications.

From the tables, insulin dropped 24% in the low carb group, as opposed to increasing 10% in the low fat group! That is BIG! Insulin resistance dropped 24% vs an increase, about the same for blood sugar. A1C dropped 10% from 6.6 to 6 vs NO CHANGE! That is pretty big also, consiering the high fat group was not calorie restricted. Weight loss 6%(High fat) vs 3%.

You know those TGLs that heart docs tell us should be kept low? A 19% drop in the high fat group vs a 3% drop in the low fat.

Of course, these guys could be lying but I have seen similar studies elsewhere. In th meantime, after 50 years of having low fat, high carb pushed on us, how has the population done re: diabetes and obesity?

Be CAREFUL with your meds! Since fasting or low carb eating could drastically lower your need for meds, you have to carefully monitor your blood sugars if you make such changes, and should at least tell your docs if you are going to do it. You don't want to end up being hypoglycemic because you took more of a blood sugar lowering drug than you need, right? So be careful. But here is the thing: if you take such an approach, you should know pretty quick if it is helping you. Or very unlikely, hurting you. You should know within a few days. You will know if it is helping you if your blood sugars are lower especially if so with fewer meds. Or even if your sugar does not increase even though you decreased meds. And if no help fairly soon, or things get worse, then just forget about it and go back to whatever you were doing.

If your doc OKs it and you decide to give it a go, please let us know how it went(and read that book!). But I have no doubt that what we all need is a lower insulin level along with a blood sugar below 100 or so. But if you want more of both, eat more carb. But even if your blood sugars are not above 110, you can still have a boatload of insulin in your blood as your insulin resistant body battles to control the blood sugars by producing LOTS of insulin(most obviously so if you have to inject insulin to keep your insulin down). And other than moving toxic levels of sugar(as in diabetic coma) out of our blood and into the cells, insulin does not appear to be helpful for very much. Unless I wanted to convert more sugar to fat, it is also great for that.

Good luck, and let us know what you figure out!

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 2/21/2018 3:33:20 PM (GMT-7)

I'm not aware of another thread where all of this is being discussed. There is a separate HW forum for diabetics. But the general subject of the relationship of T2D, insulin resistance(IR), chronically high insulin with or without high blood sugars(BS) and PCa, which I have started several threads about in the last year, just doesn't seem to generate much interest. This conversation you and I have had is by far the most I have seen said about the subject. There have been a couple of brief comments, but you are really the only one who has shown any real interest in my crack pot theories. Is there something wrong with you?

;)

Plus, someone outside of surgery who knows what a CRNA is, and even appreciates what they do? What? That is rare! We are a "ghost" profession! When you say "most CRNA's I came in contact with worked independently 90% of the time.", you sure understand how that works in the real world! But even more than that, all those years I took OB call doing the epidurals at night, the "supervisors" were not even at the hospital, they went home when the work in the OR was done, and only came back if actual surgery was being done again. Even with that, since we were already at the hospital, when there was an emergency C-section- which can happen really fast- usually by the time they got back to the hospital, the patient was already asleep and the baby out, and we were down to the patching her back up. Plus, I have worked many a rural hospital during my time where there was no MD anesthesiologist at that hospital. It was just me and the surgeon(s). I was blessed with zero bad outcomes(from anesthesia) over 36 years, then I hung it up. I miss some of it but I don't miss the stress of an 0300 emergency C-section with full belly(DANGER WILL ROBINSON!) or the OR in general!

But you made a fascinating point! : "What's interesting is that T1D doesn't seem to carry the same risks as T2D w/ Pca, according to the research I glanced at. That struck me as odd - since the T1 diabetic injects insulin directly into his body. But apparently since it is a controlled dose and the T1 diabetic does not produce insulin on his own it doesn't reach levels that are harmful to the Pca patient. That's a guess on my part. There may be other factors involved."

I know, you have nailed it exactly! Just think about what the implication of your words are, if I am right! (and I personally think there are very few doctors that think in these terms, even few diabetes specialists): How is an insulin injecting diabetic (used to be called both juvenile diabetes(JD) or sugar diabetes or insulin dependent diabetics(IDD), but these days in our super high carb and low fat world, there are so many T2Ds who must inject insulin they had to change the terms to T1 and T2, T1 being the patient whose pancreas was injured and can not make insulin). Any way, what is the BIG difference?

A: if a T1D eats and does not inject insulin, he might die or go into a comma as his BS skyrockets while at the same time his cells are starved for energy, because the BS/glucose can not get from their blood into their cells ( I eat- it goes to the stomach- digested then goes to the blood stream- carried by insulin into the cells for energy, or if not needed stored as fat again by insulin). So WHY can't the sugar get into the cells to be used as energy OR be stored as fat? Because they have NO insulin, their pancreas can not make insulin, so their BS goes to a very toxic level AND they have no usable energy from the sugar they eat, it just roams around in their blood stream causing havoc! So they often end up in a comma, actually more likely diabetic ketoacidosis leading to shock. It will do zero good to give these folks any IV sugar, since their BS might already be in the toxic many hundreds. They need insulin! It is also not uncommon for them to be skinny, because they also have little or no insulin available for storing excess glucose as fat.

So, how are they treated, these folks with IDD or sugar diabetes(old term, actually applies to both) whose blood has enough sugar in it to kill them, but no insulin? You give them enough insulin to clear the sugar out of their blood! Then you try to regulate their diet so that you don't have to give them gargantuan doses of insulin. If all goes perfectly, and they are good boys and girls regarding their diet for a lifetime, what is the end result? They end up with both a normal BS AND a normal insulin level, and almost NEVER too much insulin. They are injecting insulin, but never more than they need to handle the food they eat at a meal, and insulin pumps make control of this even more precise! So, in a perfect world, and with patients who were scared into closely watching their diets from the 1st time they almost died from diabetic ketoacidosis, and avoid desserts like their docs tell them to from day 1, they might even end up as adults with a healthy 18 year old's BS AND blood insulin levels! Not too shabby, eh? That could possibly even be a net plus for many diabetes related health conditions compared to the rest of us insulin resistant folks. And if anything(assuming reasonable carb intake) more likely to end up with too little insulin than too much, after all that is their disease: not enough(or not any) insulin. They will die if they don't inject insulin.

But what about the rest of us, whether actual T2D, pre-diabetic, or just working on it as undiagnosed hyperinsulinemics? Or folks who are simply insulin resistant? One or more of those things, I'm betting, is the majority of the obese American population, even many who are not obese. But how do we differ from the T1D guys, if not already obvious? Instead of having no insulin and having to inject it through the day, we have a boatload of it 24/7! Because there is so much insulin in our blood trying to get all of that sugar either into our cells or stored as fat, our bodies become resistant to the insulin. Which means: for the same needed effect, our pancreas has to make more insulin! Finally, our pancreas is unable to make enough insulin to keep the BS down in the "normal" range, so we have to start taking drugs, finally(because of our "progressive disease" ) we even have to start injecting insulin. That all adds up to a whole lot of insulin! All our over worked pancreas can make plus meds! Very often for our insulin resistant selves, we can have a normal BS for decades, but still our blood insulin level- rarely checked- is sky high. But finally, we can't make enough insulin and our BS creeps over the line, and next thing you know we are on diabetes meds. And often even if we get our sugar(or A1C) back to normal with meds, we STILL have a chronically very high insulin level! Again, seldom even checked.

So you can see that there is a vast gap between the blood insulin levels of insulin injecting T1Ds, and any type of insulin resistant T2D, or insulin resistant but not yet diabetic. And it is the latter who tend to have by far the higher insulin levels. One is injecting insulin because his insulin is zero, the other injecting(or taking a pill) because even though he is making a whole lot, he can not make enough to keep up with the carb input and insulin resistance. And just like a high BS, and even without a high BS, excess blood insulin has ominous health implications in multiple areas, including PC and cancer in general.

So you can see that if my ideas are correct, we should totally expect T2Ds to have a worse PC (or many other disease) prognosis than even insulin injecting T1Ds. But of course, if the T1D takes the same high carb path as is normal in the standard American diet, all bets are off. And certainly they sometimes(often?) do exactly that.

I have been saying that in 10 or 20 years it will be common knowledge that excess insulin levels are a root cause or contributor to a large # of our oft seen diseases. Time will tell if that is totally wrong. But in the meantime, I will continue doing what I am disciplined enough to do to lower my blood insulin. (sadly, I'd like to be a lot more disciplined)

Thank you, TJ, for your interesting comments and the chance to have this discussion!

As they say, this is just 1 study and sooner or later it seems like a contradictory study always shows up. Plus, we have to always be on the outlook for bias in studies. And also this was Chinese men only, so may not apply to all of us, that is possible. But still, notice the 3-8 times association. 8 times?(combining insulin + waist to hip ratio) Has there been anything else that has approached that degree of association? Well probably, but I don't know what(usually 2-3 times gets our attention big time) and for sure there is not much, if any.

Somebody said...
but men in the highest tertile of insulin resistance had an increased risk of prostate cancer (OR = 2.78, 95% CI = 1.63 to 4.72). Considering insulin resistance and WHR together, the effect of insulin resistance was apparent in all tertiles of WHR, with men in the highest tertile of insulin resistance and WHR having the highest risk (OR = 8.21, 95% CI = 2.84 to 23.70). The associations between prostate cancer risk and insulin sensitivity or resistance were independent of total caloric intake and serum levels of insulin-like growth factors, sex hormones, and sex hormone-binding globulin. Because of the retrospective design of this study, the role of insulin resistance in prostate cancer needs to be confirmed in prospective studies..........

/academic.oup.com/jnci/article/95/1/67/2520195

And regarding those high risk PCs that are actually way more likely to kill us, there was this out Mount Sinai School of Medicine:
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2364268/

Somebody said...
One hundred and sixty-three men with prostate cancer were studied. There was a significant increase in serum insulin with risk group………..Tukey's multiple range test showed that the insulin levels of high risk patients were significantly higher than the insulin levels of medium and low risk patients (P=0.05) but the insulin levels of medium and low risk patients were not significantly different from one another...........Increased T stage was independently correlated with increased serum insulin level

Graph from that study: /www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2364268/figure/fig1/

There are, of course, as always, conflicting studies.

The association of T2D with all other cancers is well known, and it seems that is going to play out with PC as well(or at least the high blood insulin that goes with T2D will). But of course, the fantastic thing about controlling our blood insulin levels by controlling our carb input- there is a direct relationship, more of 1 means more of the other (though I realize some few are saying it is not the carb but the saturated fat but I await the clinical evidence of that) is all of the other non PC health issues that are also associated with T2D/insulin resistance. It is a long list. Heart disease at the top. And so much more. It is something many of us( with diabetes or not- probably need to attempt, or look into, at the least:
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710488/

Somebody said...
The excess mortality rate for those with insulin-treated diabetes compared with those without diabetes remained stable except for increasing excess mortality from neoplasms.

Contrary to non-insulin-treated people with diabetes, the excess mortality associated with CVD did not decrease among insulin-treated people. In 2003–2007, for example the excess mortality from CHD was almost eightfold for women and almost fivefold for men with insulin-treated diabetes compared to people without diabetes...........Among insulin-treated people with diabetes, mortality from neoplasms increased almost in all age groups between the study periods. At the same time, mortality from neoplasms decreased among people without diabetes and showed also a decreasing trend among people with non-insulin treated diabetes. .......Conclusions

The present study indicates that excess mortality has remained high among individuals with diabetes. Mortality among people with non-insulin-treated diabetes compared to the non-diabetic population has decreased especially with regard to CVDs, whereas no decrease among insulin-treated were seen. Among people with insulin-treated diabetes, significant increase was observed in excess mortality from cancer among women. Further investigation is needed concerning the increased cancer mortality among insulin-treated diabetic individuals.

Despite a few conflicting studies, it seems reasonable to me that relatively high levels of blood insulin is something I would like to avoid. Do keep all of us posted on your progress, and if you try some dietary changes how that seems to work out with your diabetes and/or PC. It is probably not easy for you to get your insulin measured, but if anything resulted in you needing less medication, that would be a major bottom line sign that you are lowering your insulin resistance and your average blood levels of insulin. And hopefully,you can at the very least avoid ever having to add insulin to your treatment! And let me know if you get anything useful from that book, or find 1 that is better!

Oh, BTW, how goes it with your gut? AKA your spare tire? I have no studies to prove it, but years ago someone(can't remember who) who writes on this subject(i.e. insulin resistance) convinced me that there exists a pretty reliable sign of insulin resistance that can be eye balled even from a distance: The size of our spare tire. Not necessarily our over all obesity or the opposite, but the "looks 9 months pregnant syndrome". You know, the classic American male often with no butt, not really fat over all, arms/legs normal to skinny, but a big old very obvious so called beer belly. Or what the researcher who found that 8 times greater association called "waist to hip ratio" I think. Anyway, some folks think that for any individual, the more the belly advances in circumference, especially if most of our fat is concentrated there, then the greater our insulin resistance and all that predicts. So, anything you can do to shrink your belly is probably better for much more than better appearance. Mine has shrunk quite a bit in the last 8-10 months, but I would really like to drop it down some more. Oh well, next week is another week.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 2/23/2018 3:40:24 PM (GMT-7)

Sounds good!