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young and don't fit a risk group
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Prostate Cancer
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yayaut
New Member
Joined : Mar 2018
Posts : 3
Posted 3/29/2018 5:33 PM (GMT 0)
50 year old. PSA 3.7 Gleason 8, T2c.... recently diagnosed.
I can't find anybody in the same situation.
People think that low PSA is good news, but it isn't with a high Gleason....
Surgeon recommends surgery, radio doctor recommends radiation, what to do?
waiting on bone test results.
Sr Sailor
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2015
Posts : 1483
Posted 3/29/2018 5:42 PM (GMT 0)
Sorry to see that you are joining our group. Stay with us and we will advise you. So many knowledgeable people on this forum!
Right off the bat, I (and others) wil tell you that you have many options for treatment. You already have evidence for that. Study them all and then decide.
The recommendations you have received so far are the usual ones. As I already stated, you are in charge.
alephnull
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2013
Posts : 2548
Posted 3/29/2018 5:53 PM (GMT 0)
At 50 my PSA was 4.0, when I finally had a biopsy I was also a Gleason 8.
My suggestions are:
1) get a second opinion
2) if possible get any medical advice as to the possibility of spread. As a G8, you have a higher risk of spread.
3) If there is any reasonable chance it spread, do radiation. You have to be the one to determine reasonableness.
4) Have surgery only if: a) great chance of being cured b) you are ready for the possible side effects of a prostatectomy. Some of which are ED(may be permanent), NO more fathering children
InTheShop
Elite Member
Joined : Jan 2012
Posts : 11468
Posted 3/29/2018 5:55 PM (GMT 0)
Welcome to HW.
Hang around, lots of folks here with numbers like that.
A bone scan isn't likely to show much at this point. Your first line treatment is either surgery or RT. It's really difficult to select between the two as both will likely do the same thing and be curative. RT avoids the trauma of surgery and can treat a wider area if needed. You might want to look into SBRT which is five treatments, has few SEs and is covered by most insurance.
The problem you'll find is getting enough objective data to select between treatment modes.
Hang in there and ask all the questions you have, we're here most days.
Andrew
Zzarth
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2016
Posts : 233
Posted 3/29/2018 6:03 PM (GMT 0)
Hi yayaut
sorry to hear about
your situation... I'm a little younger than you, with a G7 ... and a PSA of 15
I wish surgery had fixed me, but it didnt ... so I ended up having to get radiation anyways .... which sucks.
If I had to do it again, I definitely would have done brachytherapy .. which probably would have gotten the margins...
But everyone has to make their own decisions... I suggest meeting with a few radiation oncologist before you decide.
Zzarth
Herophilus
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2009
Posts : 743
Posted 3/29/2018 6:25 PM (GMT 0)
Y... I hear you man. As i posted earlier on another thread, I'm a surgery survivor. Both my brother and I had surgery about
9 years ago. Pulling zero's and don't have any problems with the plumbing.
However I currently don't recommend surgery to most people that are family and friends. With the new and accumulating data on radiation I recommend that pathway if treatment is needed. If I were diagnosed today I would be having radiation therapy tomorrow.
If you do go the surgical path be very selective in the guy/gal with the knife.
Best of luck
Hero
Tall Allen
Elite Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 10645
Posted 3/29/2018 8:14 PM (GMT 0)
It's not uncommon for high Gleason grade tumors to put out very little PSA. Do have Epstein confirm it, though.
For high risk, brachy boost therapy seems to have an advantage over surgery. Here's the latest data on it:
/pcnrv.blogspot.com/2018/03/brachy-boost-therapy-and-surgery-extend.html
Here are some questions to ask yourself in making the decision:
/pcnrv.blogspot.com/2017/12/questions-to-ask-yourself-in-deciding.html
Fl Drifter
Regular Member
Joined : May 2016
Posts : 404
Posted 3/30/2018 2:21 AM (GMT 0)
Yayaut.....Welcome!! the big decision is tough ....when I asked the urologist what I should do that day he told me , I was in shock when he just handed me a book and said it will be my decision.....came here and began learning ....a very good place to be now....I wish you well, and if you want personal info on my treatment ,e-mail me ......good luck in your decision!.....David
Artist Mark
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2016
Posts : 430
Posted 3/30/2018 2:54 AM (GMT 0)
Yayaut,
Welcome and sorry you have to be here. This has been the best place for me to get info. My PSA was 3.4 with G9. You are correct that some aggressive PC gives off little PSA. I originally planned to do triple play...HT_IMRT_HDR. After getting 2nd ,3rd 4th opinion from surgeon's, RO's, from different hospitals I chose HT-IMRT. I was not a good candidate for brachytherapy so didn't have that. I passed on surgery because with my Dx, and the odds of the critters already getting out.
Having a low PSA producing PC can maybe change how you look at recurrence numbers, but if you are G8 then you already know your PC is more aggressive so needs a more aggressive treatment.
Do your due diligence and research. Ask lots of questions and keep coming back and posting here. There's lots of great info and support here.
Battle on Brothers!
The Artistic One- Mark
CAdogsRus
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2018
Posts : 138
Posted 3/30/2018 6:15 AM (GMT 0)
Artist Mark said...
I was not a good candidate for brachytherapy so didn't have that.
Would you mind sharing why you were not a good candidate? Perhaps see my new post tonight regarding my DX. Thanks.
Subdenis
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2017
Posts : 826
Posted 3/30/2018 9:43 AM (GMT 0)
Welcome, and the key to deciding what to do is education. You need to learn all you can about
the options. Docs are biased, not maliciously just focused on their craft. So these forums, books, research articles all will help you learn and then the right choice for you will become clear. I was convinced surgery was the answer and then once I become informed chose HDR brachytherapy. The other key gift is to ask questions of your docs and her e on the forum, keep asking until your solution emerges. Denis
halbert
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 6043
Posted 3/30/2018 11:51 AM (GMT 0)
Yayout, welcome to our club that none of wanted to join. Now that you're here, you can slow down on the panic--we all know what that early diagnosis craziness is like.
Here are some things for you to do....
First, have your biopsy slides sent to Johns Hopkins for a second opinion. Your urologist will know how to do that. When you get the results, you'll know what you're dealing with.
Second, (and you've already started this process) DO the research into treatment options. With a G8, treatment is in your future. You have choices. Here's a few thoughts for you on that score (by the way, this is my opinion, and I'm not a medical professional)....
For a G8, surgery MAY be a viable option--but, if there are any indications that the PC has moved outside the capsule, then you might ask yourself a question like this: If i'm going to need post surgery radiation anyway--why do the surgery?
Some of the newer radiation options that Tall Allen has suggested may be great for you--external beam with brachy boost has had impressive results in cases like yours. SBRT or HDB might also be great choices. You need to find yourself a really up to date and experienced radiation oncologist to look at your case.
In case no one has yet suggested it, let us know where you are, and we may be able to point you towards an expert near you. If you don't know where to start, you can google "NCCN centers of excellence"--which are nationally ranked cancer centers, and they are located all over. These places are used to new patients calling in for information and can set up consultations with their in house experts for you.
Artist Mark
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2016
Posts : 430
Posted 3/30/2018 2:22 PM (GMT 0)
CadodRus,
I was not a good candidate for brachytherapy because the risk of severe SE was too great. ie; I had already been experiencing urinary difficulty before treatment and my RO didn't want to risk making those worse. IMO- One should consider QOL issues along with other factors when deciding on treatment options.
Mark
Michael_T
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2012
Posts : 4103
Posted 3/30/2018 3:54 PM (GMT 0)
yayaut...I was diagnosed at 51 as a Gleason 8, so sort of similar to you although my PSA was somewhat higher. (But not as high as many others.) Unfortunately, I was re-classified as a Gleason 9 upon second opinion and I think that underscores the advice given above by Tall Allen about
getting a similar second opinion on your slides. Gleason 8 does put you in the high risk group so it would be good to confirm that's actually the case with you. (Nothing to count on, of course, but you could get re-classified a Gleason 7. At any rate, you want to know what you're dealing with.)
All of the other above advice also is good. Talk to as many specialists as you can. There's several different types of radiation and my ROs only practice one type. Regarding surgery, you would want as experienced a surgeon as you can find.
Good luck to you and I hope we can help!
yayaut
New Member
Joined : Mar 2018
Posts : 3
Posted 3/30/2018 8:45 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you to all. Tall Allen. your link comparing surgery and radiation was very helpful.
Caleb1968
New Member
Joined : Jun 2015
Posts : 14
Posted 4/3/2018 9:57 PM (GMT 0)
Hey yayaut, I didn't fit the age profile either. For me it was "like father, like son". I had mine removed at 47 y.o. It's been all good for 2+ years.
Caleb
Current Age: 49
8/2012 : PSA 1.30
6/10/15 : PSA 7.83
6/17/15: negative test for UTI, DRE
6/22/15: Biopsy, 12 cores, negative
9/26/15: PSA 10.71
9/30/15: Biopsy with 72 cores, G=3+3, Stage T1C
12/26/15: Robotic RP
3/31/16: PSA 0.01
June 2016, father passed away after 9 year battle following RP, chemo, HRT
6/30/16: PSA 0.01
Current PSA 0.01 ever since
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