halbert said...
And this is germane on a PC board how? Seriously.
I have a daughter on the spectrum, actually she's an Aspi (Asperger's syndrome). And, no, I don't think it's caused by vaccines or vitamins or their lack. Neither does she (age 33). Looking back through the family history, there is evidence that there have been people on the spectrum for generations.
And I still don't understand why this is germane on this forum--unless it's another attempt at a supplements argument.
Well, I get asked a similar question a lot when I post these studies proving benefit for any vitamin- but usually vitamin D- in a wide variety of diseases which, unfortunately, does not usually include PC. While we have tons of non RCT evidence regarding Vit D and PC, we only have 1 large level 1 RCT that showed neither harm nor benefit benefit for vitamin D and PC, although I felt the methodology was quite questionable and unnatural. I.E., one truly massive dose once a month vs daily sunshine(obviously tougher to use in an RCT) or the at least more "natural" approach of a smaller(but still plenty) daily dose. Others felt that was just fine. We also have 1 non-placebo (they just looked at their institutions norms instead) trial that did show some pretty good results after 1 year, COMPARED TO THEIR NORMS. But no placebo. There was one more done giving 2 months of daily D to men having their prostates removed, but that was years ago and the results have never showed up, just disappeared. Which I find very irritating. But bottom line, RCTs for D and PC have been far and few between.
However, we do have a ton of evidence for benefits of a higher blood level of vit D, even with a good bit more RCTs, for a wide variety of other cancers and disease processes. Now almost every time I post one of those studies here, someone asks me a question similar to yours. Sometimes in a somewhat hostile or sarcastic manner. Not you, but some do. It is almost as if it angers them that I would dare post such a study that is not specifically about
PC. Even though we post on a wide variety of OT subjects, health related and otherwise, they want to know why I would do such a thing. And it is the Vitamin D that seems to irritate the most people. I rarely am asked such a question if I post about
diet vs heart disease, or even diet vs other cancers. So why would I do it? That makes me ask "Isn't it self evident?". But I will list a number of reasons why I would do such a crazy thing.
1: If there are very few RCTs on vitamin D vs PC but quite a few more, with positive results, on quite a few other cancer types(as I have many times posted about
here), until proven otherwise, and especially if almost zero harm has been shown and it is dirt cheap, why wouldn't we presume the strong possibility that it will also some day be shown to be helpful for PC? Even a small help would be worth while to me. And even the RCT(with the once a month dose) that failed to show a benefit showed no harm, so why wouldn't I- and you- be interested if it shows benefits for other diseases, especially cancers?
2: All of the above re: many different health issues. If Vitamin D is being shown to be helpful in a wide variety of other health issues as well as cancers, until conclusively proven otherwise by studies giving reasonable amounts of daily doses, or until some study shows significant harm, why on earth would I assume it is useless for PC?
3: Some people here are concerned about
the possibility of secondary cancers being caused by treatment for PC. If there are studies showing likely benefits of high blood levels of vitamin D in other cancers, types that people fear getting as a result of PC treatment, why on earth wouldn't I tell folks about
these studies, which they can consider for themselves? Why would I stay silent about
that? I'm thinking I could link a study about
a prescript
ion med that slashes breast, lung and colon cancer deaths, even for 100K a year and with some fearsome SEs, but we don't yet know for sure about
PC, and I would not be asked how that is germane to PC. I think I would just be told "hey, Bro, that is potentially good news for folks with cancer, and hopefully we will soon know that it is also good for PC". It is only for vitamin D(or probably any vitamin) that I am going to get that type of response. Or possibly for anything that does not come from a prescript
ion pad. Halbert, what do you think? Am I wrong about
that? I value your opinion.
4: Isn't every one here interested in the general health of themselves and their loved ones? Since posts about
non PC related subjects are allowed and indeed common at HWPC, then wouldn't most people here want to know if a cheap and apparently safe vitamin had been proven to have some significant for any disease, including Asperger's (sp?)?
BTW, speaking of safe, did you notice that there were no significant SEs noted in these studies, even though they were giving children doses as high as 5000 iu/day?
I could go on and on about
why I might post items apparently unrelated to PC, but surely that is enough. My question is "why on earth wouldn't I, and why do a few folks(a lot?) object to me doing so". I do not understand it. These studies just seem like potential good news to me, for all of us and our loved ones.
One last thing: I really hope I am not thought of as "the crazy vitamin D guy", but Iprobably am. I actually am more interested in some other vitamins, and far more than those, diets and their relation to the insulin our bodies produce. After all, when I was 1st diagnosed with G9/PSA >10, in addition to starting higher doses of vitamin D, I began taking about
10 gms a day of vit C combined with a specific ratio of vit K. Based on 2 small RCTs, showing this combo was of benefit for advanced PC patients. Though I was later told by a well known person here that these were trash studies, they did not appear so to me, and their appeared to be little downside, so I did it. And my PSA, which had never failed to show an increase over the last 15 years and had begun a fast, steady rise tat was untouched by antibiotics, dropped 25% in the 2 months preceding my RP. Despite the fact that I was barely over my biopsy, which is known to raise PSA. Was it actually helpful? Maybe not, who knows. But, that is the one and only time my PSA ever went down over many years. If a drug had done it, we would claim some success.
But the point is: I am not really that much of a vitamin D fanatic. So why do I keep posting these studies? Because that is where the studies are! I search for anything that might prove helpful. At least in the world of vitamins, the research into D seems to dwarf every thing else. Even though you would think the ICU of a big Virginia Med Center slashing sepsis deaths primarily by adding Vitamin C to their sepsis protocol would have folks aggressively looking into that, vit D studies still dominate. That is what I mostly find, so that is what I mostly post. And what I find mostly refutes the idea of snake oil, and expensive urine, and even recently"drug pushers"(which I found ironic). So I keep posting the evidence.
Thank you Halbert for your question, and giving me this opportunity to explain myself.
Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 9/24/2018 10:47:46 AM (GMT-6)