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Argent
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2017
Posts : 111
Posted 12/7/2018 7:54 PM (GMT 0)
After almost three years post prostatectomy and follow-up standard (screening type) PSA tests being undetectable, last June I persuaded my doctor to order the ultra-sensitive PSA because I know I have a high risk for recurrence. The result was undetectable. In September I had a follow-up visit at Mayo and a repeat PSA there. It was undetectable but to my surprise they did the standard PSA. I thought about
asking for the ultra-sensitive but decided to wait until this week to get it. It turned out to be 0.11 . This of course worries me a lot.
The doctors in the small town where I live don't agree with getting the ultra-sensitive PSA, nor does my Mayo clinic doctor but I am glad I insisted on it. I just wish I had insisted back in September. But now I have this worry.
Anyway, here I am today with this result. I have asked for a repeat ultra-sensitive PSA the first week in January, a month after the 0.11 result, and do not plan to tell my family about
the 0.11 because I really don't want to dampen the holidays. Mostly I am writing this to vent a bit but I'd also like to learn what others think and would do in my place. Would you advise a repeat ultra-sensitive PSA sooner?
Blackjack
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2017
Posts : 805
Posted 12/7/2018 8:15 PM (GMT 0)
Argent said...
Would you advise a repeat ultra-sensitive PSA sooner?
Nope. There's absolutely nothing you would do with that additional information.
Argent
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2017
Posts : 111
Posted 12/7/2018 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
I know you are correct that no treatment decision would be made if I got an earlier test but I'd sure feel better if a repeat was undetectable next week. That's the problem with PSA anxiety. I guess what I am really wondering is how variable is the ultra-sensitive PSA? Plus or minus what? I have not been able to find out.
InTheShop
Elite Member
Joined : Jan 2012
Posts : 11468
Posted 12/7/2018 8:42 PM (GMT 0)
you've got a .1 the little numbers after that don't matter much.
I wouldn't repeat the test now. I'd enjoy my holiday and think about
it next month.
In any case, your next treatment mode likely won't start until your PSA rises a bit higher and you've had a few scans.
Andrew
Blackjack
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2017
Posts : 805
Posted 12/7/2018 8:47 PM (GMT 0)
There's significant variation due to multiple causes. First off, never compare one test result to another if they were done at different labs (or if you discover that your one existing lab switched/updated test equipment) because they all have their own calibration standards and methods. Second, once you stick with just one test, the test accuracy variation is often beyond the minimum reportable resolution...so if your score goes from 0.11 ng/mL to 0.12 the reported result went up but is there really more PSA in your blood...maybe/maybe not, the test is not that accurate. Third, the absorption of PSA into your blood serum varies day-to-day, hour-by-hour. Although this would be impossible/impractical to obtain statistically significant limits on this, I've seen reports of someone going every day for a month to get a PSA test and their results varied +/- 30%. What you ate today, and how long ago, and other similar body biology variations all play a (small) factor, for example, in what your blood serum constituents are at a test any given part of the day.
So you could test it again before your scheduled test 1st week in Jan, but what if it comes back 0.09? What if it comes back 0.12? I know you'd like it to come back 0.01, but ... up to you. I wouldn't .
Argent
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2017
Posts : 111
Posted 12/8/2018 12:43 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the replies. I'll wait until January to re-test.
halbert
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 6043
Posted 12/8/2018 12:05 PM (GMT 0)
Argent,
Yeah, little moves are nerve-wracking, but one wonders what they mean. Most docs won't act on PSA movement post RALP unless you have several rises in a row over a period of several months. 0.1 or higher is less important, it seems, than a steady trend. And, so far, you don't have a trend.
As far as the accuracy of the test overall, the answer to that question is actually difficult to come by--the big labs like Labcorp and Quest don't publish their statistics--but it appears that the generally accepted accuracy (noise) values are in the range of +/- 0.01 or even 0.02. So changes in the 3rd decimal point area aren't even looked at--unless they show steady movement from non-detect upwards. As someone else pointed out, the key points are to always have your blood draw at the same site, at the same time of day, under the same conditions as far as you can. Then the data can be compared.
Argent
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2017
Posts : 111
Posted 5/16/2019 8:21 PM (GMT 0)
As you can see from my updated profile things have progressed. Yesterday I re-started leuprolide + bicalutamide. Next week I get measured for radiation to the sacrum. Plan is for 8 Gy x3 = 24 Gy. Probably will get a year or 18 months of the leuprolide, one month of bicalutamide. The doubling time is about
6 weeks which is quite aggressive if it is fair to call a mindless thing like cancer aggressive. The good news is I only have the one spot detected and it is in a
location that hopefully can be treated hard enough to obliterate it. I know that the odds are that there are other mets but it makes sense to me to treat this aggressively and my MO and RO agree.
mspt98
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 458
Posted 5/16/2019 10:13 PM (GMT 0)
Yup, I’m like you I’d hit it hard too..
Saipan Paradise
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2017
Posts : 1371
Posted 5/17/2019 12:48 AM (GMT 0)
Good plan, Argent, and good luck. We're all pulling for you.
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